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So before we left for AR. We had all the work described in the original post done. HPOP, IPR, IPC, Oil Cooler, EGR Delete and FICM. The diesel mechanic in AR just called me and sent me a picture of the STC fitting (WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE UPDATED TO THE NEW DIRECT CONNECT FROM HPOP TO THE BRANCH TUBES) It wasn't. The AR diesel mechanic said there were visual "pry marks" on the fittings. The HPOP to branch tube fitting was blown completely off. Hence the new "no cold start"
This makes sense to me, but does it to ya'll?
Still replacing all the injector o-rings as well as the nipple cup o-rings.
I now have to order the HPOP to branch tube line...
Anyone have a link or a site to get it from for a decent/fair price?
This is a good bet. usuially worth the trouble to register. They'll want the VIN #
I have a couple part # lists but that oil tube isn't on either of them.
He has the o-rings on the injectors and the nipple cups installed then... Still no start. Found that the STC had been "pryed" on but wasn't sure why. So it had failed.
Went to the local Ford dealership, got a new OEM stc fitting, sent it to AR. The mechanic just gave me a call and said the bolt holes don't line up and he had originally told me that there were pry marks on the original STC fitting. Meaning to me that the mechanic I used in Texas had pryed on it to force the two holes to line up. In doing so I'm assuming that transferred unnecessary and to much force to the STC fitting end which is already weak, poorly made, and faulty. Which most likely created my entire issue.
Here is a picture (not so clear) of the NEW STC fitting not lining up with the pre-Arkansas trip installed new HPOP
So the AR diesel mechanic and I have been talking about this NEW "issue" all day. This guy has been awesome. Anytime he has ran into anything he calls me sends me a picture and explains full on what he's done, why he's done it and what he thinks is going on.
He thinks the HPOP threaded holes that receive the STC line, were drilled offset (wrong/in the incorrect spot) by roughly a 1/4 inch @ the factory.In the above posted picture he has the STC fitting slid slightly to the left where it needs to connect STRAIGHT ON with the branch tube fitting.
If he slides it back that 1/4 inch to the right, the bolt holes line up to the HPOP and will thread fine but, then the STC fitting is offset to the right a 1/4 inch (roughly).
I was thinking about having him remove all the o-rings and heating the 'line' portion in two spots and fabbing it to fit correctly...
I just don't want the STC fitting when connected to the branch tube fitting to be at any angle at all. I would have to presume it would for sure just fail again.
Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, knowledge about this being a possible common defect would be MORE than helpful.
So the AR diesel mechanic and I have been talking about this NEW "issue" all day. This guy has been awesome. Anytime he has ran into anything he calls me sends me a picture and explains full on what he's done, why he's done it and what he thinks is going on.
He thinks the HPOP threaded holes that receive the STC line, were drilled offset (wrong/in the incorrect spot) by roughly a 1/4 inch @ the factory.In the above posted picture he has the STC fitting slid slightly to the left where it needs to connect STRAIGHT ON with the branch tube fitting.
If he slides it back that 1/4 inch to the right, the bolt holes line up to the HPOP and will thread fine but, then the STC fitting is offset to the right a 1/4 inch (roughly).
I was thinking about having him remove all the o-rings and heating the 'line' portion in two spots and fabbing it to fit correctly...
I just don't want the STC fitting when connected to the branch tube fitting to be at any angle at all. I would have to presume it would for sure just fail again.
Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, knowledge about this being a possible common defect would be MORE than helpful.
Thanks ONCE AGAIN, lol, in advance.
BostonSean.
That's what I would try to do. If he can bend that oil line just right, it should be fine. However, I find it shocking that hpop would be drilled wrong. I find it more likely that the previous mechanic bent the oil line.
Edit
Just read that you bought a new ok line, and it is the one that does not fit.
It it were mine, I'd have the AR mechanic pull the hpop because it may not be installed strait .... If that's even possible.
You keep saying STC, but yours is a 04, so I'm a little confused as too what is wrong.
It the two bolts don't fit the oil line fitting, is it possible to oversize the hole in the plate to get the other bolt in?
The only thing I can think is the HPOP tube got tweaked in shipping.
It's hard to tell from the pic but is it possible the the branch tube connector (at the back of the block) moved somehow? Seems like that would leave some marks though.
There are two part numbers for the early model high pressure oil pumps. One if for '03 and early '04, the other is for late ,04. MChan has posted they look identical on the bench but maybe there is a slight difference?
I agree on pulling the pump and checking it's mounting. Shouldn't be nearly that much room for misalignment though, the gears have to mesh at the back.
Tweaking the line so it fits properly with no rocking could be time consuming but it does seem like the best option. I'll post back on the part numbers for the two different pumps also.
Okay, it seems that everyone is a little confused with regards to what HPOP is used with which model year engine, so I will do my best to clear things up. First, let's start of with the 2003 engine. This will be the model year engine that uses the early aluminum swash plate style HPOP, the earlier of the two IPR valves available for this engine (3C3Z-9C968-AA/CM-5054). The part number from Ford for the HPOP for this engine is 3C3Z-9A543-AARM.
Now onto the LATE-2004 engines. This is the model year that many changes were made, including the piston dome size (rendering glow plugs non-interchangeable between early and late engines), the switch to the wavy rails and the location of the ICP sensor that all of you are well aware of. However, this particular model year of engine still retained the use of the swash plate style HPOP with a different part number 4C3Z-9A543-AARM. If you were to place this pump side by side with an '03 model year engine pump, they would appear identical. And to be honest with you, I couldn't tell what the internal differences between the two pumps are, other than the information found on page #29 of this document:
DTS Articles - Coffee Table Books
The reason being, at the dealership level, we simply replace the pumps when there are issues with them. We don't disassemble them. And, if it matters, this particular model year engine uses the earlier IPR valve (3C3Z-9C968-AA/CM-5054), but uses the later model year injectors.
Now onto the 2005 and up engines. This is the style that originally used the dreaded STC fitting that everyone likes to change up to the one-piece updated branch tube connector (that were installed on 2008 and newer E-Series application engines from new). Not sure what else to say about this version of pump, other than the fact that it is a V-4 cast iron pump that has been far less problematic overall than the '03/'04 style pumps. And lastly, the part number for this pump is 5C3Z-9A543-C, and uses the later model year IPR valve (5C3Z-9C968-CA/CM-5126).
The only other thing I can think of that's worthy of mention is for '03/'04 owners thinking of switching to the '05 and newer style pumps, don't even think about it. For an '03 the later branch tube will not work with the '03 thread in style standpipes. And for you late '04 owners, changing out a branch tube is far more work than it's worth, just to put in a '05 style pump.
That's what I would try to do. If he can bend that oil line just right, it should be fine. However, I find it shocking that hpop would be drilled wrong. I find it more likely that the previous mechanic bent the oil line.
Edit
Just read that you bought a new ok line, and it is the one that does not fit.
It it were mine, I'd have the AR mechanic pull the hpop because it may not be installed strait .... If that's even possible.
You keep saying STC, but yours is a 04, so I'm a little confused as too what is wrong.
It the two bolts don't fit the oil line fitting, is it possible to oversize the hole in the plate to get the other bolt in?
Originally Posted by Rusty Axlerod
The only thing I can think is the HPOP tube got tweaked in shipping.
It's hard to tell from the pic but is it possible the the branch tube connector (at the back of the block) moved somehow? Seems like that would leave some marks though.
There are two part numbers for the early model high pressure oil pumps. One if for '03 and early '04, the other is for late ,04. MChan has posted they look identical on the bench but maybe there is a slight difference?
I agree on pulling the pump and checking it's mounting. Shouldn't be nearly that much room for misalignment though, the gears have to mesh at the back.
Tweaking the line so it fits properly with no rocking could be time consuming but it does seem like the best option. I'll post back on the part numbers for the two different pumps also.
Originally Posted by Rusty Axlerod
6.0 Model Year differences
07-15-2012, 11:42 AM
m-chan68
Okay, it seems that everyone is a little confused with regards to what HPOP is used with which model year engine, so I will do my best to clear things up. First, let's start of with the 2003 engine. This will be the model year engine that uses the early aluminum swash plate style HPOP, the earlier of the two IPR valves available for this engine (3C3Z-9C968-AA/CM-5054). The part number from Ford for the HPOP for this engine is 3C3Z-9A543-AARM.
Now onto the LATE-2004 engines. This is the model year that many changes were made, including the piston dome size (rendering glow plugs non-interchangeable between early and late engines), the switch to the wavy rails and the location of the ICP sensor that all of you are well aware of. However, this particular model year of engine still retained the use of the swash plate style HPOP with a different part number 4C3Z-9A543-AARM. If you were to place this pump side by side with an '03 model year engine pump, they would appear identical. And to be honest with you, I couldn't tell what the internal differences between the two pumps are, other than the information found on page #29 of this document:
DTS Articles - Coffee Table Books
The reason being, at the dealership level, we simply replace the pumps when there are issues with them. We don't disassemble them. And, if it matters, this particular model year engine uses the earlier IPR valve (3C3Z-9C968-AA/CM-5054), but uses the later model year injectors.
Now onto the 2005 and up engines. This is the style that originally used the dreaded STC fitting that everyone likes to change up to the one-piece updated branch tube connector (that were installed on 2008 and newer E-Series application engines from new). Not sure what else to say about this version of pump, other than the fact that it is a V-4 cast iron pump that has been far less problematic overall than the '03/'04 style pumps. And lastly, the part number for this pump is 5C3Z-9A543-C, and uses the later model year IPR valve (5C3Z-9C968-CA/CM-5126).
The only other thing I can think of that's worthy of mention is for '03/'04 owners thinking of switching to the '05 and newer style pumps, don't even think about it. For an '03 the later branch tube will not work with the '03 thread in style standpipes. And for you late '04 owners, changing out a branch tube is far more work than it's worth, just to put in a '05 style pump.
Okay so my truck has the ICP under the valve cover making it the pre-september build date 03 model called an 04.
I sent the HPOP to branch tube STC tube (Part # 3C3Z-9T288-AA) in a very well packaged manner. Fragile stickers, bubble wrap, and all that. The mechanic confirmed after receiving the part that the box was not crushed or damaged in any fashion.
I think I am going to approve him heating and manipulating the part. This has been a nightmare.
Here is the parts list installed prior to going to AR and breaking down again.
(Not including the oil cooler and EGR delete)
Okay so my truck has the ICP under the valve cover making it the pre-september build date 03 model called an 04.
I sent the HPOP to branch tube STC tube (Part # 3C3Z-9T288-AA) in a very well packaged manner. Fragile stickers, bubble wrap, and all that. The mechanic confirmed after receiving the part that the box was not crushed or damaged in any fashion.
I think I am going to approve him heating and manipulating the part. This has been a nightmare.
Here is the parts list installed prior to going to AR and breaking down again.
(Not including the oil cooler and EGR delete)
I'm confused. "Under the valve cover". Don't you mean under the turbo ( early 04)? Or do you mean on the valve cover (late 04)?
STC for an 04 model? You DON'T have the troublesome STC. Please clarify because in lost. Why do you keep calling it the STC?
12-06-2014, 02:53 PM
Update...
Fittment..
Not the update I wanted to give...
"issue" all day. This guy has been awesome. Anytime he has ran into anything he calls me sends me a picture and explains full on what he's done, why he's done it and what he thinks is going on. 
I could very well be wrong...