What are some good mods and upgrades? From starting on a stock truck to building a power house. Right now my 2000 F250 7.3 4x4 6Speed has a DP TUNER Infinity DX, with 60eco, 80tow and 100performance. I have a 6637 intake, AIH and Foil delete, Warn Lockouts, with everything else mostly stock. I want to.start slowing building her up. Whats the next best buys? I eventually want a bigger turbo and Injectors and a better clutch. But I want to start with the cheaper things first to support them. Till one day i can eventually rebuild my entire motor with forged guts. What are the best things to do from where im at? Do you guys suggest a HPx or FRx? I plan on doing the Hutch and Harpoon tank mods soon. I was wondering if a lift pump or some type of fuel system would benefit with stock injectors or have any other benefits. Also, is it worth building my stock turbo with a new impeller or anything else like housings? Or is that something obsolete and just wait for a bigger turbo itself? What else is there to do? Im starting small and working my way up. And whats the best orderbto do these things in? Opinions, advice, anything? Thanks!

 

FRx is a good next move. I would pass on the HPx, as I personally have not seen it be of any major benefit and it is just another area to leak.

The stock electronic fuel pump is sufficient for stock injectors up to stage 2's.

If you ever plan on upgrading injectors, look past upgrading the stock turbo. Even if you upgrade the wheel, housing, and turbine, it is still thrust bearing and they do not like a lot of boost. A GTP38R is good for about 450HP.

After looking at your datalog, look into getting an HPOP first. A T500 would work perfect for you.

 

I agree here.

For going beyond that a good cheap mod is the Walbro fuel pump. Technically they don't rate it for diesel, but I've had mine for years without a hiccup. Holds rock solid 75psi without ever even the slightest movement on the fuel pressure gauge.

Agreed again.

I'll disagree here. Reason why is if the OP is looking at upgrading the injectors, his choice on injectors may or may not even need an upgraded HPOP. A bone stock HPOP might work just fine for many applications. I would suggest waiting until after the other mods are finished, especially after having injectors upgraded, to see if there is still a need for an HPOP. If so, then drop the coin. If not, then that's money saved.

 

I've seen the datalogS (plural). There is something else at play, other than the HPOP.


First - a visit to my Custom Tunes link in my signature may resonate in your current situation. You have an air leak somewhere in your intake/exhaust. Your money will be going there immediately, or you'll be driving like a Washington/Colorado driver enjoying the new "bud" law, you'll be parked, or you'll be visiting your truck in the shop for a while - but at least you have choices. If it's an exhaust leak, you will want to visit the conversation of bellowed up pipes vs. a T4 turbo configuration. That would be your first "layer" of mods to decide on.


The beauty of this is your ability to datalog on your Infinity. You have most of the tools you need to restore the truck to 100% as you go along.

 

The only reason I say HPOP is because of his current numbers. Under a hard pull, ~1550 psi ICP with 89% duty cycle. Unless his stock split shots are that worn and/or oil hungry, an HPOP would not be a bad idea.

Yes, I agree. He has a low boost situation going on as well. I failed to get into this on my original post back to him, but did do so in my e-mail response to him.

 

I have a new data log justin. With my exhaust back pressure sensor plugged in. (The electrical plug on the bottom of my turbo) and the results returned way better. I have then unplugged the red line from the waste gate and capped it off. New log will be ran tomorrow. Ill send you an emailed copy.

 

I'd let this be, but I wouldn't want those with high IPR and low ICP to automatically assume they need a new HPOP or they have ICP leaks. Other things in the truck can cause this, so it's not yet time to warm up the Buck$Zooka.

 

But what's the pulse width at that ICP and duty cycle?

I'd be inclined to agree if you're only seeing say around 3ms of pw in that situation, but if it's well over 4ms then even a perfectly healthy and 100% normally operating HPOP is going to drop pressure like that.

Most trucks I've messed with start dropping ICP on stock injectors past 3.3-3.4 ms. That's about the threshold in many cases for the stock HPOP to supply enough oil to AD's before duty cycle pegs out. ICP usually stays at a reasonable number up to about 3.7-3.8 ms. After that, pressure starts taking a rapid nose dive if pulse width goes beyond.

Those are pretty much the exact same numbers I saw on my truck when I did an injector swap. I spent lots of time testing it while learning how to tune, and saw it when tuning other trucks too. In current form it'll hold 3200 psi at mid to upper 40's duty cycle while laying down a tad under 500hp and pushing only 2.3 ms of pulse width. Didn't need an HPOP at all, the stocker works perfectly fine and supplies more than enough oil volume for my needs. Which is why I recommend an HPOP after doing injectors to see if there really is a need to spend that extra cash. Often times there's no need.

A vast majority of stock injectored tuned trucks, and I mean across nearly every tuner or programmer brand so I'm not picking on anyone, will show pulse width right at or above 4ms in tunes of "80hp" or more at WOT. It's always been that way, and it really hasn't changed much over the years. Think fuel pulse width multiplier table. Nearly everyone raises that table, and that's the main culprit. Not saying it's always a bad thing, it's just how things are done in most cases.

 

I tried to leave this alone... but I see a can, and I see worms squirming everywhere... on the deck of a ship that has sailed.


Data logging: If you monitor IPR, ICP, FIPW, and RPMs on a hot tune - you will see the FIPW go high, the ICP drop, and the IPR go crazy. HOWEVER... the real symptom to watch for is the "Stinky Spike" (I discovered it without help, so I hogged the right to name it).

Here's Stinky with a hot tune before mods:



I installed a T500 and that brought the ICP up to 2400 PSI, but the target was 3000 PSI and I still had a Stinky Spike.

The graph from Diesel 724's log



Hmmm... the HPOP reached for 3000 PSI when the FIPW backed off. I won't say it's just the FIPW without more testing yet... but that data is coming in today.


Here's a member pulling a load in a hot tow tune (cycling the throttle) up a steep grade:




I have dozens of examples of this if needed... from many members' trucks.

Moderators: I would not be offended if this conversation mysteriously evaporated.

 

The whole "excessive pulse width" thing isn't exclusive to just one company, either.

I have some tuning from an oft-recommended company (not the one represented in this thread) and I'm wondering why a set of 250/200% injectors needs 6.3mS of pulse width at 3000 PSI (if it could even maintain that pressure - which it couldn't so the commanded pulse width was even HIGHER than 6.3mS). Mind you, this wasn't for my pickup. I'm not in this to steal anyone's garbage. I am not "that guy". However, when the dude that owns the vehicle can make more power with LESS THAN HALF the pulse width and far less smoke (and no touchy accelerator pedal and the herky-jerks while using cruise control downhill), it boggles my mind thinking about how many other people out there are "just dealing with" the substandard junk because they've been told that "It's just the way it is.".

Near as I can tell, with all of the tools available these days, why in the hell is this kind of crap still passed-off as acceptable tuning?!?!?! I guess if someone's got their hands in selling aftermarket high pressure oil pumps it makes sense.

 

Why is my head playing cat noises? "Rawr! FFT! FFT!"

 

Cody, tell us how you really feel. LOL!

 

Waiting to here this.

 

I just want my truck running right haha.