View Poll Results: 5.0L V8 or 3.5L EcoBoost to Replace 6.2L Super Duty Engine?
5.0L V8. The Super Duty should have a base V8.
73
68.22%
3.5L EcoBoost V6. It offers better capabilities.
34
31.78%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll
Question of the Week: 5.0L V8 or 3.5L EcoBoost to Replace 6.2L Super Duty Engine?
#229
06-29-2015, 11:16 PM
Mountain Pass
RRRSkinner I can see you like to bash the EcoBoost for some unknown reason. There probably is no amount a proof that will ever make you feel comfortable with that engine, so stick with the V8. Ford still makes them and probably will for a long time. Besides all the testing that Ford did, there is a whole plethora of information that exists today proving the EcoBoost is reliable. There are hundreds of great running EcoBoost F150's on used car lots today that have in the neighborhood of 200,000 miles on them. I spoke with a dealer a few months ago who sold a 2011 F150 with 460,000 miles on it. It was owned my a transporter who used it for his business. According to the dealer the Transporter traded it on another EcoBoost F150. Me I have almost 75,000 miles on mine and it runs perfect. I tow my boat and I tow my classic car all over the country. I've taken my car out west and down south, love the way the EcoBoost runs pulling the trailer. I'm planning on going to Ford nationals this spring so I'll be towing out east. We also rented a Travel Trailer to do a little camping by some bike trails up north. In every case I can tell you that the EcoBoost is far superior to the 5.4 Triton I previously had. That truck had the max tow option and was really a lessor towing machine than my current F150 w/o Max Tow. My EcoBoost unloaded towing mileage is better than my unloaded towing mileage 5.4 V8. My loaded towing mileage is similar however the EcoBoost gets me to the other side of the mountain a lot faster than the the Triton V8 did. I can not see why anyone would want to down grade to a V8.
#230
06-30-2015, 12:34 AM
My 2¢, the 3.5 EB has proven its self in the F150 but dropping it in a Super duty will require it to work at literally a 100% duty cycle for extended amounts of time, in my opinion it isn't likely to be used in the Super duty. The 5.0 has also been a good Engine in the F150 but as it now I very much doubt it will be used in a super duty but have read some interesting comparisons to the 5.0 and 3.5 EB that make me wonder if a 5.0 EB could be a possibility for the Super duty? A 5.0 EB in a Super duty will obviously not be tuned as hot as the 3.5 EB but should be able to put out a reasonable amount of power.
I love big gas engines but with today's technology and the EPA standards I very much doubt we'll see any big displacement gas engines in the newer Super duties.
I love big gas engines but with today's technology and the EPA standards I very much doubt we'll see any big displacement gas engines in the newer Super duties.
#231
06-30-2015, 03:11 AM
My 2¢, the 3.5 EB has proven its self in the F150 but dropping it in a Super duty will require it to work at literally a 100% duty cycle for extended amounts of time, in my opinion it isn't likely to be used in the Super duty. The 5.0 has also been a good Engine in the F150 but as it now I very much doubt it will be used in a super duty but have read some interesting comparisons to the 5.0 and 3.5 EB that make me wonder if a 5.0 EB could be a possibility for the Super duty? A 5.0 EB in a Super duty will obviously not be tuned as hot as the 3.5 EB but should be able to put out a reasonable amount of power.
I love big gas engines but with today's technology and the EPA standards I very much doubt we'll see any big displacement gas engines in the newer Super duties.
I love big gas engines but with today's technology and the EPA standards I very much doubt we'll see any big displacement gas engines in the newer Super duties.
PowerStroke and the current 6.2L can handle the work...maybe just having those 2 options are enough to keep most customers happy, and it seems to be that way since 2011.
#232
06-30-2015, 06:17 AM
That's my main concern as well. Unless they do something to really keep the engine cool, especially doing work like your truck with the bales...low speeds, that little engine will be ready to grenade. Maybe a variable speed water pump similar to the variable speed oil pump in the newer 2.7L EB and coming into the second generation (I think) 3.5L EB. Low travel speeds with high engine speed will cut the engine life fast. It can be done, but is Ford and ultimately the customer willing to put forth the extra cash for a H.O heavy duty EcoBoost for a super duty? Probably not. I think the 6.2L will be upgraded more and they might bring in another gas V8 option like a 5.8L 351. But seeing as EcoBoost is considered a higher end option, one in a Super Duty truck might cost maybe as much as the 6.7L PowerStroke or maybe a bit less.
PowerStroke and the current 6.2L can handle the work...maybe just having those 2 options are enough to keep most customers happy, and it seems to be that way since 2011.
PowerStroke and the current 6.2L can handle the work...maybe just having those 2 options are enough to keep most customers happy, and it seems to be that way since 2011.
#233
06-30-2015, 11:20 PM
Even with a bigger radiator and oil cooler the fluid (and metal of the engine) can only conduct a certain amount of heat from the Engine no mater how well it's cooled. It is possible to melt internal engine parts or turbos on diesels with a big tune without ever overheating the coolants, I don't know where that point is for the 3.5 EB but even if it's higher than I think it is (honestly I think it's fairly high) I don't think it could live long term in a loaded down Super duty. (edit) the 3.5 EB is it darn impressive engine in the F150 far as I'm concerned.
#234
07-02-2015, 05:20 AM
Andy you are spot on with all of that. Going off of what you said at least in diesels from what I have read over the last few years, sustained EGTs of 1400°F for a period of time will wreck havoc on internals...it'll make the metals weaker. If they were going to put an EcoBoost engine in it would probably have to be a purpose built engine. 3.5L works great in the F150 no doubt but anything larger it'll just hurt it. Yeah they might be using Aluminum bodies on the super duty trucks for 2017, but that'll only do so much. Until its proven in a larger vehicle to work without having any major concerns, sticking with the 6.2L or 6.7L is the best people can do. Or they add methanol injection to the EcoBoost to help with internal temps. But all we are doing is speculating on this. I highly doubt anyone is willing to spend a ton of money to test the engine in a much larger truck to see where it's failing point is.
Here's some reading on EGTs, even though its diesel, it still applies to gasoline engines. The Truth About EGT - Diesel Power Magazine
Here's some reading on EGTs, even though its diesel, it still applies to gasoline engines. The Truth About EGT - Diesel Power Magazine
#236
07-03-2015, 12:13 AM
I was curious about the turbo gas EGT's and after some web searching I didn't find a good answer yet. I did find that a gas Engine (without a turbo) can see EGT's around 1100/1400° and that turbos on a gas engine can spin over twice as fast as a Diesel, a gas turbo can see upwards of 125,000 RPM vs a Diesel's turbo maxing out at around 50,000 RPM.
#237
07-03-2015, 04:25 AM
I think that "purpose built" for the superduty line is the right way to approach. But, has anyone here even watched the Ecoboost torture videos? 150K miles of pure abuse and then a public tear down to reveal no abnormal wear internally.
Part of this abuse was running at WOT around Daytona for 24 hours pulling an 11000 pound trailer.
Another part was running WOT through the Baja in a Baja built truck and finishing with no breakdowns and achieving better MPG's than the purpose built Baja engine.
The 3.5L ecoboost is built heavier internally than the old 300 I-6 which at one point was available in the F-600/700 series trucks.
Not saying the 3.5L is the right engine but I think it's being discounted as a weak cheese motor.
Part of this abuse was running at WOT around Daytona for 24 hours pulling an 11000 pound trailer.
Another part was running WOT through the Baja in a Baja built truck and finishing with no breakdowns and achieving better MPG's than the purpose built Baja engine.
The 3.5L ecoboost is built heavier internally than the old 300 I-6 which at one point was available in the F-600/700 series trucks.
Not saying the 3.5L is the right engine but I think it's being discounted as a weak cheese motor.
#239
07-04-2015, 12:41 AM
Some cars are are almost a a disposable purchase item because of technology, it's almost more expensive to fix them then to replace them in some cases, i'd really hate to see trucks go in this direction.
#240
07-04-2015, 06:07 AM
[QUOTE=twigsV10;15477018]With how little turbo lag the new 6.7 has I don't doubt this is true. With vast improvements in turbo precision RPM's that high aren't that big of a deal... At least in the short run, the 6.7 is a impressive monster of an engine but as with the 3.5 EB precision parts are critical to its ability to function. How are well the precision parts stand up to 15, 20, 25+ years of normal working truck conditions is what I'm looking at.
Some cars are are almost a a disposable purchase item because of technology, it's almost more expensive to fix them then to replace them in some cases, i'd really hate to see trucks go in this direction.[/QUOTE]
This is happening already. The trucks will be the last to be discarded as they are worth the most and of course the most expensive to repair. You incur moderate damage to an ecoboost vehicle or a diesel superduty and you've got intense engine damage to contend with as well as front end electronics, air bags, body and possibly frame damage and the alignment afterwards.
Some cars are are almost a a disposable purchase item because of technology, it's almost more expensive to fix them then to replace them in some cases, i'd really hate to see trucks go in this direction.[/QUOTE]
This is happening already. The trucks will be the last to be discarded as they are worth the most and of course the most expensive to repair. You incur moderate damage to an ecoboost vehicle or a diesel superduty and you've got intense engine damage to contend with as well as front end electronics, air bags, body and possibly frame damage and the alignment afterwards.