I know theres a crap ton of pictures, in relation to progress, but I figured it would be helpful for myself or anyone else that might ever try this and needs pictures to see how something is supposed to go back together haha.

 

OK, can anyone help me validate my theory of valve springs / back pressure?

The dt360 can handle 28 psi of safe back pressure, with an exhaust brake.
That is 28 psi with 0 psi of boost, or close.

In my mind, if RPM stays the same, as stock, the only issue is not back pressure, but pressure differential between intake and exhaust.
Let's say 40 psi is enough to float the exhaust valves with 0 psi boost, with 10 psi boost, should it not now take 50 psi to float the exhaust valves?
If the exhaust pressure is 40, and boost is 20, should there not only be effectively 20 PSI acting on the exhaust valves?
I am reading thread after thread talking about boost or exhaust pressure, and calculating the valve size to determine the needed spring force to hold it shut.
Can you think of any circumstance where the exhaust or intake has pressure, but the combustion chamber doesn't ? ?????

The only thing I can think of, is after the exhaust stroke, if the intake valve opened late, and the downward travelling piston causes a vacuum in the cylinder, but I don't really think that could happen.

Thoughts?

 

I looked at these units before, and am still curious :

https://www.frozenboost.com/air_wate...92c851213e1d5a

Air exiting the turbochargers can get up to 300-500 *F.
I realize that is why we have intercoolers, but I am curious about the benefits of stabilizing the intake air temperature.
The 6.7 diesel uses a liquid-air intercooler, from what I gather, but it is on the 100* coolant loop, not the 200* main engine loop.
If I installed one of these on my main coolant loop, after the air-air intercooler, there could actually be times this would further reduce air intake temperatures, although most of the time it would raise temperatures.

Why on earth would anyone ever think of increasing air intake temperatures?
First of all, it has been said, even by engine manufacturers, that under about 80*, fuel economy falls off, and combustion suffers to a degree.
Secondly, where I live, it is cold half the year, really cold. The annual average temperature is 2.4 degrees Celsius (36.3 degrees Fahrenheit).
So considering this truck's radiator and intercooler performs fine places like Texas, it is oversized, IMHO, to what I need. Of course bigger is better, when were talking about power and keeping a powerful engine cool, but there is a lot of times where I feel that -40 air rushing into the engine isn't creating an ideal burn.

If it has a habit of generating crazy EGT's, I could always make it so it only circulates fluid if the air flowing through it goes under 80* or over 200*, because under 80* is non ideal operating temperature, and over 200* it could actually help cool intake air in tandem with the air-air IC.

I actually think sometimes people over rate how good intercooling is, I mean of course we need it to keep things from melting, but I disagree with "colder is better" for every single scenario. Colder air makes more horsepower, but more horsepower does not always equal efficiency.
IMHO, colder air is only better when EGT's need to be corrected, not constantly.

 

You definitely don't need to over complicate things with the intercooler....If you want to run an intercooler just use the factory one. It's plenty sufficient, and you're right in your thinking that intercooling is overrated. Not that they don't help when running power levels far over stock, but it's not a make or break item for most people and their mild setups.

Gotta also remember, these trucks are designed to tow huge loads on the regular, in the country's hottest climates. The stock intercoolers are designed for that, if power for fun is what you're after, it doesn't even compare remotely to the conditions and constant loads they're intended to be subject to.

Run what you have, no benefits from anything else. In fact, intercoolers are huge restrictions in airflow relatively speaking. There is a happy area that any particular turbo setup can live perfectly fine with no intercooler...

 

The secondary cooling system on the 6.7 is a 122-degree loop that controls the temperatures of the EGR, fuel and transmission coolers along with air-to-water charge air cooler. The biggest down fall to this is the ability to upgrade it once you start adding a lot of power and push the limits since the cooler is cooling more then one component.

One of the larger benefits of heat exchanger charge air cooler i see is more stable charge air temps.

Here is my opinion based on my own tuning experience. The more variables you can control the better tune you can produce. If you have seen the tables and maps to tune it is defiantly clearer, there is a lot that goes into tuning these modern engines gas or diesel.

Stable air temps equal better tuning. Now if we can keep a more stable tune we can also keep more stable efficient emissions as-well.

As far as the actual temp that the engine best benefits, you would be surprised at the difference at the efficiency between a air to air cooler and a heat exchanger style air cooler. The air differential in actual temperature drop between the two is significantly different. The air to air would have to see much cooler ambient air to be as efficient as the coolant charge air cooler in comparing the actual temp drop of the charged air.

Example, in the summer in stop and go traffic i have actually seen my EGT's raise at a light as much as 200 degrees with the aluminum intercooler i currently have, simply because in stop and go traffic the air to air cooler becomes heat soaked without sufficient air flow, this issue is worse with the aftermarket cooler then the stock cooler. The aftermarket intercooler is larger and thicker and as a result it becomes heat soaked easier. Actual driving on the HWY the cooler is more efficient. Either way its a problem i wouldn't expect to see with a coolant charge air cooler providing the cooling system is operating correctly.

I really don't think there is much of an advantage of a coolant charge air cooler on a DT360 mechanical engine. I would assume the existing charge air cooler on the 6.4 is going to be more then efficient providing the turbo maps you chooses are sufficient for the HP goals. The existing charge air cooler on the 6.4 has easily supported 500-650 HP to the wheels with the right turbo combination. If the turbos are not efficient your gonna have problems regardless how you try to cool your charged air.

 

I don't want to over complicate this thing, but on the other hand, I am after a truck that will be nice to drive, not an all out performance build.
Driving in summer air is IMHO ideal for the air to air intercooler, but that is the exception for me, not the rule, so I am trying to tailor this truck to my needs.
I am thinking of using the factory intercooler, AND a liquid to air, inline after the factory intercooler. This way, the intake air should always be getting pulled closer to engine operating temperature. And the factory IC still has the ability to shed heat at high throttle.


During the past years with my 7.3, and 6.4, I am aware of my driving habits, and how a diesel truck runs given the needs I have. A big downfall of the 6.4 and 7.3, has been ability to make and retain heat.
I am also open to the idea of using an EGR cooler to aid in engine warming, but instead of plumbing it to the intake, just plumb it to the exhaust. If it fails, maybe it bubbles the coolant a bit, but nothing goes into the intake.
Exhaust would only flow through it at idle to help warm the engine.
Sound absolutely insane?
Am I crazy for wanting to pre heat intake air, and install an exhaust heat recovery system on an old mechanical engine?

HOTRODSRJ’s COOLING TIPS Operating temperature vs power and longevity!

I don't think so, I consider it modification to not only make the engine last longer, but also get better economy, and warm up quick so idling is greatly reduced, hopefully. Warmed intake air will also likely reduce exhaust smell and smoke / haze when cold out.

Before you say this sounds like a massive recipe for an EGT induced disaster, consider that the EGR cooler would only flow at idle to warm up, and the liquid-air exchanger on the intake could have flow adjusted or bypassed if it's causing an EGT issue, and the 0.2 psi pressure drop seems to be a non issue.

 

I am going to insert comments in your quote:

 

I hope y'all don't think I'm crazy, these ideas are because I believe the happiest engine is one that gets to operating temperature as quick as possible, and stays there.
We've all seen conversations about how engines last longer at a stable load, because heat cycling is more stable.
Of course in a truck, we need to vary duty cycle constantly, that is driving, and the intention of use.

Consider if it is -40 outside, and I am driving highway speed up a big hill, Boost & EGT's go up, then just on the other side of the hill, I'm coasting down the whole way, and -40 air is getting sucked down the intake. So pistons go from generating 1000* EGT's, to almost nothing, within only a few seconds.
I know the engine can deal with that by design, but that doesn't mean it is an ideal situation.

If I can mount a 300$ air-liquid IC that will help the truck warm up, run cleaner, and possibly enhance engine lifespan, I am game to try it lol, especially with a truck like this, where anything goes.

 

I am hoping to put something like this on the trasmission, 1200 stall:

aFe F3 Torque Converter, 1200 Stall for Ford 5R110W 2008-2010 6.4L

That should really put the torque to the road.

 

Parkland.

How are your nice different project?
Any progress? I'm still reading it man.

I want see an all mechanical 2008 F-250.

 

To be honest you will kill this engine with a 1200 stall converter,unless you plan to hit it with a good bump of nitrous to lit the turbo/turbos. This has already been done I may not have explained this to you before, you really need to research this before you make a huge mistake on the converter. Theoretically, for maximum acceleration, the stall speed of the torque converter should match the peak torque rpm of the engine. Significant gains in throttle response, acceleration, towing and fuel efficiency are possible with a proper tuned diesel torque converter that lowers the stall speed to where maximum torque is produced. In addition you won't be hit with additional turbo lag and poor engine performance. No other component effects the way a Diesel engine / vehicle combination makes power like the torque converter. Like every other part of an diesel engine combination the torque converter needs to match the engine curve. DT-360 makes peak torque around 1800, when you install a 1200 converter the engine actual loads before 1200 RPM and even with the best turbo or compound turbo set-up you will have lag you will regret sided with poor overall engine performance.

If you want to roll coal and not get moving by all means put a 1200 stall converter. If you want an efficient truck you will look at 1700-1800. Please don't take my word for it, research it like you have everything else you you will find this information on your own id just hate to see you spend the money and be greatly disappointed. I have seen people waste a lot of money on turbos because they didn't address the root issue being a poor converter set-up. This is just my advise a low stall does not mean you will have better milage and drivability and can actually cost you more then a converter thats to loose.

 

Keep in mind that the transmission is getting custom tuned with the ford computer, so the shift points could be whatever.
Also, I plan on using a variable vane turbo, of some kind, so I'm thinking if it really couldn't get the truck moving good, just adjust that to boost harder from the bottom end.
The 6.4 turbocharger can make about 6 psi at 1100 RPM unloaded, I tested it with vice grips hahaha.
I suspect that with a load on it, there would be a lot more.
Wether or not the TQ converter allows it to get to 1100 RPM, thats another story, I suppose if the converter is too tight, like you said, smoke till she starts rolling.
Criticism appreciated, would like to figure most of this out before buying the parts.

 

Subscribing to this after finding it losing it then finding it again lol

 

The shifts point adjustment won't affect the converter if the stall is to low, If the stall is to low and the engine is operating outside its power band performance will suffer.


The questions is not that the 6.4 will make 6 PSI 1100 RPM, the question is will the DT360 make the same back pressure/drive pressure at 1100 RPM to drive the turbine to make 6 PSI.

I suspect the answer is no, But without seeing actual BP vs RPM between the two engine this is just speculation on my part.

 

he's right. the 360 wont spool a turbo anything like a 6.4...common rails spool turbo's much better than mechanical pump'd engines. the added pressure of common rails injection cycle (which could be upward of 10,000 psi more than the inline pump of the dt) is much more violent, which in turn spools turbos faster/sooner at a lower rpm and provides more available torque at lower rpm.


common rail is king of spool....add on top of that a little more displacement of the 6.4 vs the 5.9, and theyre incomparable.


just food for thought.