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  #1  
Old 08-30-2014, 09:40 PM
jrods2 jrods2 is offline
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97 7.3 replaced turbo/wont run

I just replaced the turbo with a new rebuild from Pure Turbo's. It took a week to get the rebuild so in the meantime I pressure washed the engine and compartment(hate the oil), removed the computer before cleaning, straight water, I live in 90/105 deg. weather. No changes or upgrades. Just replaced a worn out turbo(reason is:I was using a qt. of oil every 200 miles. Everything went fine till startup. This is when all heck broke loose. motor ran like c==p. surge at idle, let off the gas surge from 500 to 1200 rpm, made lots of noise like detonation. shut it off/break time, went in and read the ford owners manual. Discovered that if you disconnect the batts it goes batty, so I drove around the block about 4/5 times, had a cop follow me around half way, guess he figured I had my hands full, to relearn the comprtr. 1st couple times around trans worked flawlessly like always 3/4 pass around trans wouldn't shift to 2nd till 3k rpm, 5th time round trans started to shift normal again but lots of black smoke, throttle was either full on or off with lots of blk smoke,4 stops signs at each corner idle was always rough, decided to go back to shop, parked truck/rough idle. turned it off. went inside read more but to no available answers. Disconnected batts again to try the relearn again but no start, noticed oil pressure wasn't building, Oh I installed a pressure gauge at the turbo(preluded turbo before initial startup). Got disgusted and decided to snoop around the internet so here I am. Read a lot of posts & got a lot to look at but past experience(I'm 63) has taught me to kick gather thoughts and ask someone that knows what they're talking about.
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:03 PM
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Welcome to FTE!

Did you remove the computer from the firewall ?
Or the IDM from the drivers fender ?
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:38 PM
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drivers fender,
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:02 PM
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That's not the computer. That's the IDM (injector driver module)
The PCM is in the firewall under the brake booster.
I'd start with disconnecting the batteries and pulling the PCM and checking it for water. If water is present yiu can try to dry it out before replacing it.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:05 PM
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:18 PM
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It's also possible that you dislodged or forced water into one of the valve cover harness connectors and have lost a bank (2) of injectors.

I'd [CAREFULLY] unplug them all and check for water in there. Dry them all out, make sure they're seated right and try running her again.

Also, what's this you say about the turbo-mounted oil pressure gauge?

And welcome to FTE!
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:13 AM
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1997 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel

when it ran it ran on all cyls. As stated the truck sat in the sun in 85 to 110 deg temps for 5 days. believe me water is not an issue. dislodging might be but that would have shown up instantly. There's an oil port in the back of the spider housing that the turbo is bolted to. I plumbed the hard line from there to the pressure gauge, didn't use plastic line due to heat. preoiled turbo per warranty requirements by PURE TURBOS IN OCEANSIDE CA. oil pressure was 55 psi at idle. watched a utube video about the fuel pickup filter being clogged but don't think it an issue either. had a buzzing noise coming from relay on top of motor an found a corroded wire so I cleaned it an soldered a new connecter on and stopped that problem. I'm almost sure that the pressure washer done some kind of damage but just what is the ?. There was no power to any components because I removed the batts prior to washing. All electrical connections grounds ect were cleaned with sandpaper and coated with a film of electrical grease that I got from an ibew electrician/mil spec stuff. I have no check engine light on, so I understand if the ecl is not on no codes will be defaulted to scanner. I don't have elec schematics yet but I will be working on that real soon. The future of this engine is to transplanted into a 49 3/4 ton chev panel truck. I'm a builder, I won 1st place at the 2008 seattle roadster show. (just to give you an idea of how smart I am) ha ha
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordpride View Post

that's what I took out before all this happened, just below the hood support hinge
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrods2 View Post
that's what I took out before all this happened, just below the hood support hinge
The wiring harness that goes into the firewall is connected to the PCM. Disconnect the harness an pull the PCM out to see if it has water damage. If water got into any connections it could still be there. The connection allow forced entry but not allow evaporation to let it out.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOOSE_MACHINE View Post
The wiring harness that goes into the firewall is connected to the PCM. Disconnect the harness an pull the PCM out to see if it has water damage. If water got into any connections it could still be there. The connection allow forced entry but not allow evaporation to let it out.
I will do that. but in the desert where I'm at after five days, well could be deep. thnx and keep thinking about it, believe me you got more experience than me. this is my first diesel. that new turbo really impressed me for a few mins
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrods2 View Post
that's what I took out before all this happened, just below the hood support hinge
That one is for the injectors. It's job is to send a 100v signal to the injector.
The one in the firewall is the computer (PCM)
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:13 AM
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replaced turbo wont start

Are there any electrical checks I can do before I try to start engine? and what are the voltages? If black smoke indicates no air then what stops the air flow?
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:51 PM
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AP: Accelerator Pedal position sensor
Load/demand input; PCM uses this to determine mass fuel desired, adjusts fuel delivery
through IPR duty cycle and fuel pulse width and injection timing; 5 volts in, 0.5-0.7 volts at idle,
4.5 volts at WOT. PID: AP

BARO: Barometric pressure sensor
Strategy input; PCM uses this to adjust fuel quantity and injection timing for optimum running
and minimum smoke, also glow plug on time to aid starting at higher altitudes; 5 volts in, @4.6
volts/14.7 psi at sea level, decreasing as altitude increases. PID: BARO (pressure)

CMP: Camshaft Position sensor
Strategy and load input; PCM uses this to monitor engine speed to determine engine state
and load, and cylinder position in order to control timing and fuel delivery; Hall Effect sensor
which generates a digital voltage signal; high, 12 volts, low, 1.5 volts. PID: RPM

DTC: Diagnostic Trouble Code
System malfunction or fault codes stored in the PCM to aid in diagnosis.

EBP: Exhaust BackPressure sensor
Feedback input; PCM uses this to monitor and control EPR operation; 5.0 volts in, 0.8-1.0
volts/14.7 psi KOEO or at idle, increases with engine RPM/load, decreases as altitude
increases. PID: EBP (pressure), EBP V (volts)

EOT: Engine Oil Temperature sensor
Strategy input; PCM uses this for determining glow plug on time, EPR actuation, idle speed,
fuel delivery and injection timing and adjusts as temperature increases; 5.0 volts in, 4.37
volts@32F, 1.37volts@176F, .96volts@205F. PID: EOT (degrees)

EPR: Exhaust backPressure Regulator, also EBP regulator
Output; For quicker engine warm-up at cold temperatures. If the IAT is below 37F (50F
some models) and the EOT is below 140F (168 some models) the PCM sends a duty cycle
signal to a solenoid which controls oil flow from the turbo pedestal. This causes a servo to
close a valve at the turbo exhaust outlet. The PCM monitors the EBP input to determine if the
EPR needs to be disabled to provide power for increased load, then reapplys the EPR as load
demand decreases until EOT or IAT rises. PID: EPR (duty cycle), EBP (pressure)

GPC: Glow Plug Control
Output; The PCM energizes the glow plug relay for 10 to 120 seconds depending on EOT and
BARO. PID: GPC (time)

GPL: Glow Plug Light
Output; The PCM controls the "Wait to start" light independently from the GPC output; 1 to 10
seconds depending on EOT and BARO. PID: GPL.

GPM: Glow Plug Monitor
Feedback input; On 1997 and newer California emission vehicles, the PCM monitors glow plug
relay output voltage to determine if any glow plugs are burned out or if the relay is functioning.
PID: GPML (left bank current), GPMR (right bank current), GPMC (relay output)

IAT: Intake Air Temperature sensor
Strategy input; The PCM uses this for EPR control. 5 volts in, 3.897volts@32F, 3.09@68F,
1.72@122F. PID: IAT (degrees)

ICP: Injection Control Pressure sensor
Feedback input; The PCM monitors the high pressure oil system to determine if it needs to be
increased if load demand increases. It also uses this to stabilize idle speed. volts in,
1.0volt@580psi, 3.22volts@2520psi. PID: ICP (pressure), ICP V (voltage)

IDM: Injector Driver Module
The PCM sends a Cylinder Identification and Fuel Demand Control signal to the IDM. The IDM
sends a 110 volt signal to the injectors. It then grounds each injector as fuel is required for
that cylinder. Fuel Pulse width is increased to deliver more fuel. The IDM sends a feedback
signal to the PCM for fault detection. PID: FuelPW Fuel Pulse Width signal from PCM
(milliseconds)

IPR: Injection Pressure Regulator
Output; The PCM controls the high pressure oil system by varying the duty cycle of the IPR.
The IPR controls the oil bypass circuit of the high pressure pump. 0%=full return to sump
(open valve), 100%=full flow to injectors (closed valve). The PCM monitors the system with the
ICP input. The PCM can control fuel delivery to the injectors by increasing the IPR duty cycle
which increases fule pressure through the injector nozzles. PID: IPR (% of duty cycle), MFDES
Mass Fuel Desired an internal PCM calculation based on load demand (MG)

IVS:Idle Validation Switch
Strategy input; On-off switch that the PCM uses to identify required operating mode; idle or
power. 0 volts at idle, 12 volts off idle. PID: IVS (off/on)

MAP: Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor
Strategy and feedback input; The PCM monitors manifold pressure to control fuel delivery in
order to minimize smoke. It also optimizes injection timing for detected boost. It also monitor
boost to limit fuel delivery to control maximum turbo boost. Frequency output; 111Hz=14.7psi,
130Hz=20psi, 167Hz=30psi. PID: MAP (pressure baseline 14.7psi), MAP HZ (frequency), MGP
Manifold Gauge Pressure (pressure base line 0psi) turbo boost

MAT:Manifold Air Temperature sensor
Strategy input; The PCM uses this signal to adjust fuel and timing. 99 model/year engines.
PID: MAT

MIL: Malfunction Indicator Lamp
"Check Engine" or "Service Engine" light that the PCM illuminates when certain system faults
are present.

PCM: Powertrain Control Module, also ECU or ECM for Electronic Control Unit or
Module
The computer which monitors sensor inputs and calculates the necessary output signals to
the engine control systems. It also checks for readings outside of normal parameters a
records trouble codes for these faults.



PID: Parameter Identification, also Data Stream or Sensor Data
Sensor readings displayed to a scan tool that represent sensor readings to- and ouput
signals from the PCM.

Useful PID comparisons
AP--Accelerator Pedal--and IVS--Idle Validation Switch: IVS should switch state when AP
voltage is approximately 0.2-0.3 volts higher than base idle position.

ICP--Injection Control Pressure--IPR--Injection Pressure Regulator--and MFDES--Mass Fuel
Desired: ICP should rise as IPR duty cyle increases; MFDES and IPR should rise at the same
rate as load and/or demand increases (actual readings may not match); ie. ICP=500psi,
IPR=12%, MFDES=10MG @500 RPM; ICP=900psi, IPR=22%, MFDES=20MG
@1800RPM/cruise; ICP=1800psi, IPR=50%, MFDES=40MG @3000RPM/hard accel.

ICP--Injection Control Pressure--and RPM--Camshaft Position Sensor: After 3 minutes at 3300
RPM, ICP pressure should be below 1400psi for Federal, 1250psi for California Emissions,
and 1500psi for 99.5. At idle, ICP should be 550-700psi for Federal, 400-600 for California
and stable.

V PWR--Battery Voltage--RPM--Camshaft Position sensor--ICP--Injection Control
Pressure--FuelPW--Fuel Pulse Width: When starting V PWR should be above 10volts, ICP
should be at least 500psi, at least 100RPM, and FuelPW 1mS-6mS. Once the PCM
recognizes CMP speed and cylinder ID, FuelPW should default to 0.42mS, 0.60mS for 99 up,
until ICP reaches starting pressure.

EOT--Engine Oil--and IAT--Intake Air Temperatures: After a cold soak, before starting EOT
and IAT should be within 10 degrees of each other, Key On Engine Off.

BARO--Barometric--MAP--Manifold Absolute--and EBP--Exhaust Back-pressures: All three
should indicate atmospheric pressure (14.7psi at sea level) and read within 0.5 psi of each
other, Key On Engine Off.

ICP--Injection Control Pressure--and ICP V--ICP Voltage: ICP should read 0psi, ICP V should
read 0.20-0.25 volts, Key On Engine Off.

EBP--Exhaust Back Pressure--MGP--Manifold Gauge Pressure--and RPM--Camshaft Position
Sensor: At full throttle in neutral, EBP should be below 28psi; At full throttle in fourth (manual)
or third (auto) gear, MGP should be 15psi.

7.3L Injector "Buzz" Test
The Injector "Buzz" Test can be used to look for a faulty fuel injector. It is best to run this test
on a totally cold engine, one that has sat overnight and has not been started.
Initiate the "Buzz" test and then listen carefully to the injectors as the test is completed. First,
all 8 injectors will "Buzz" at the same time. Then, the IDM will "Buzz" the injectors in numerical
order (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8). Remember that cylinders 1-3-5-7 are on the passenger side and
2-4-6-8 are on the drivers side, with cylinders 1 & 2 being at the front of the engine. You
should hear a strong "Buzz" bouncing from side to side for all 8 injectors. If one of the
injectors doesn't "Buzz", you've found a problem cylinder. It is important to note that when an
injector fails to "Buzz" properly, you will still hear the other 7 injectors make a faint buzz...this
is a designed function to protect the IDM. Remember, The buzz test is not an audio test only,
you should get fault codes with this test.

Note: Because the IDM will "buzz" the other 7 injectors faintly during individual cylinder tests,
it is possible for the "Buzz" test to report no problems detected. If the "Buzz" test reports no
failures, but you don't hear a particular cylinder "Buzz"...more than likely there is a problem
with that injector.

It should also be noted that an injector failing a "Buzz" test can have many causes. The
injector can be in a failed state (loose armature plate screw, bad solenoid, etc.), the UCV
(under valve cover) gasket or harness could be damaged or disconnected, the main engine
harness could be damaged or the IDM could be damaged. Further inspection will be
necessary to determine the actual problem...but at least you now have a place to start.

Quick KOEO Sensor Checks:
There are a few sensors that can be easily checked with a scantool. Starting with a "Dead
Cold" engine (let it sit overnight, don't start), connect to the truck with the scantool. Check
the following:
Oil Temp should closely match the current Ambient Temp.
Readings for Exhaust Back pressure, Manifold Absolute Pressure and Barometric Pressure
should all be within 1/2 psi of each other (this should be true with the engine either warm or
cold).

(Note: with the engine running, MAP and EBP values are "Pressure + Baro". For example, if
Baro is 14.7 and there is 2psi of boost, MAP will read 16.7. Also, there is a calculated PID
called "Manifold Gauge Pressure" that doesn't have the Baro pressure added in).

KOER (Key On Engine Running) On-Demand Test:
On the 7.3L, the primary purpose of this test is to check the functionality of the High
Pressure Oil System and the Exhaust Back Pressure Solenoid. On the 6.0L this test may
return Misfire, VGT or Glowplug codes.

Requirements to Start (7.3L and 6.0L)
7.3L Powerstroke Starting Req.: *************************6.0L Powerstroke Starting Req.:
Vehicle Power : *10.5v ****************************************Vehicle Power : 10.5v
RPM Signal : 100rpm ******************************************RPM Signal : 100rpm
Inj. Cntrl Press. (ICP) : *0.85v (about 500psi) *****Inj. Cntrl Press. (ICP) : 0.85v (about 500psi)
Fuel Pulse Width : *1 to 6 milliseconds ***************Fuel Pulse Width : *0.5 to 2 milliseconds *

FICM SYNC and SYNC Achieved *
Note: the above starting requirements for both 7.3L and 6.0L Powerstroke Diesels assume
the following:
Sufficient Base Engine Oil Level and Pressure
Acceptable Quality Fuel
Sufficient Fuel Pressure
Sufficient Air Supply
Proper Glow Plug Operation
Proper Injection Timing (PCM Controlled)

P1298 - "IDM Failure" (7.3L)
This code can be set by a low battery. Connect a battery charger, clear codes and re-run
KOEO tests. If this code doesn't return, check charging system and batteries and repair as
necessary. If the code returns, IDM is suspect.

P1316 - "IDM Codes Detected" (7.3L)
IDM Codes are stored in memory in the IDM itself. The P1316 DTC is an indication that there
are stored IDM Codes that need to be retrieved and/or cleared. Executing a "Clear Codes"
will clear both PCM and IDM codes...DO NOT CLEAR CODES until you have retrieved and
reviewed the codes stored in the IDM
Please keep in mind that IDM Codes are stored in memory. If you have a code indicating a
fault, but there is no drivability problem, the fault may not currently exist. After taking note of
the codes, execute a "Clear Codes". At this time you should be able to re-run the above
tests with no IDM codes generated. If one or more IDM codes are still present after the
"Clear Codes" command has been successfully executed and the above tests performed
again, the fault still exists and further examination is necessary.

P1211 - "ICP Higher/Lower Than Desired" (7.3L)
We all know that this code is commonly caused by "Hot Chips" that are demanding more
Injection Control Pressure (ICP) than the High Pressure Oil Pump can deliver. For what it's
worth, these are the exact parameters that trigger this code:
ICP 410psi Higher Than Desired for 7 Seconds
ICP 280psi Lower Than Desired for 7 Seconds
This code can also be caused by legitimate High Pressure Oil System issues. Below is a list
of some of the causes:

Failed or Sticking IPR (Injection Pressure Regulator)
Failed or Weak HPOP (High Pressure Oil Pump)
Any Leak in High Pressure Oil System (o-ring, stuck injector, etc.)
Low Fuel Pressure (Rare)
P1280 / P1281 / P1283 - (7.3L)

The above codes are related to ICP also. If the Service Engine Soon (SES) light is on and
these codes are present, the ICP reading through any scantool will not be accurate as the
PCM is using a "default" ICP value. These codes are all "electrical" in nature. Common
causes are shorts between the Red and White IPR wires or between the Red IPR wire and
ground. These can also sometimes indicate a PCM problem.
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Old 09-01-2014, 02:29 AM
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Where abputs are you? There may be someone near by that can help.

Richard
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:29 PM
jrods2 jrods2 is offline
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replaced turbo

palmdale ca 93550, If I remove the cover for the fuel filter and turn on key, bowl does not fill up. could it be the elect pump in the tank?
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