As I'm driving along on the lengthy trip to work, I realized I committed a faux pas with my math above. I was thinking power stroke, but I skipped right over the RPM math, so I made the appropriate corrections. The numbers came out far more spicy than I first posted. I have seen tuners push out to 4.5 ms and higher - with the side effect of serious soot, and EGTs bending needles.

If I double-dumbed it, please correct me.

 

Actually, I think you just over complicated it. 3000 rpm is 20ms per revolution. There are two revolutions, or 720 degrees per complete cycle (suck squash bang blow), allowing 40ms for everything.

Ideally, each portion of the cycle would get its 180 degrees of piston travel from TDC to BDC (or back) and 10ms, but since it takes time for things like valves to open and close, the air flowing in and out has mass and momentum, the timing of the various events are shifted around by much smarter folks than I.

 

I think you were close the first time.

 

The math all looks correct to me. The one thing that didn't get touched on much was injection timing BTDC.. injection timing is changed in all of our tunes.

Advancing injection timing too far will result in fuel spraying on the flat top of the pistons instead of the edge of the bowls where it belongs. Spraying fuel on the top of the piston results in a dirty burn and cylinder pressure increases as well.

Some modifications can be made when building an engine that would allow us to run increased injection timing. Larger piston bowls (sacrificing compression), decking the heads, changing piston to deck clearance.. these things can change how far the piston is from the nozzle, so the injector would need to begin injection at a slightly different time.

I thought that was worth mentioning. Figuring out how much injection timing you need to run will allow you to figure out how much time you have to inject X amount of fuel to reach your power goals. I'm driving down the road and I'm lazy, so there's my excuse for not providing y'all with calculations or specific numbers.

 

"HOLY MULTI TASKING BATMAN" you typed/spoke that going down the road?


You guys that really know these motors are greatly appreciated for sharing with us.

 

best people in the world for help are right here

 

I understand the need to get a tune for switching from the stock split shots to singles, but what would be needed going from AB's (120cc) to AD's (140cc) in an e99, since they're both split shots? Wouldn't the engine sensors just pick up on the different engine output and compensate? Just wondering...

 

No such sensors exist on these trucks.


But to answer your question, yes you could actually throw in AD's on an AB truck and it will run fine. In fact, you probably won't notice much of a difference at all, including power output.

 

I didn't mean sensors that determine the type of injector, I just meant that the system as a whole would work out the right FIPW or ICP or even injection timing or whatever else it can control to deal with the slightly larger injectors.

 

You can mix and match ABs and ADs in the same engine and never realize a difference.

Again, and I'm not picking on anyone specifically.....

There is no difference between an E99 and 99-03 because of the injector capacity. Everyone makes a big deal out of it and it's a total non-issue.

EDIT:

Actually, there is not enough difference between anything drivetrain-wise on an E99 vs. a 99.5-03 to even discuss. Again, everyone makes a huge stink about how inferior an E99 is because this or that is "smaller" wherein the people who have never been around both obviously are just spewing things that they've only "heard" (more specifically READ on a FORUM) about.

 

Nope, nothing like that at all.

The injectors will fire based on what they are commanded to do:
- The calibration sees a certain oil temp, it sends a command.
- The calibration sees a certain air temp, it sends a command.
- The calibration sees a certain ICP demanded, it sends a command.
- The calibration sees a certain amount of fuel demanded, it sends a command.

So on and so on.

There are no sensors to compensate based on different sized injectors, nozzles, etc written into the stock calibration.

In a nutshell there's nothing that the PCM can "read" in the motor after the fuel is delivered. There's no knock sensor, no O2 sensor, no EGT sensor, nothing. Basically it's blind to what happens when the fuel ignites and burns, other than seeing that the engine is still turning so it can get ready to fire the next injector in line. So if the PCM is blind to the combustion, it can't compensate for the combustion process itself.

That's why if you put single shot injectors in without tuning changes, the idle goes lopey and crazy. There is nothing to help it compensate. That's why the pedal is jerky and sensitive. Again, nothing to help it compensate. Bigger injectors running on stock tunes feels like they are fighting each other all the time.

Stock calibrations are only written for stock injectors, and are unable to make up for injector changes, requiring calibrations to be re-written.

 

I'm in the market for a used motor or truck to eventually swap into my 2000, and my only issue w/ an early 99 would be reselling some of the parts might be tough and it wouldnt be as great as an investment as a 99.5-2000.

 

The parts that would be a tough resell is the turbo and intake plenums. The AB injectors are useful to anyone wanting cores to build injectors from or to put into any SD or Cali model OBS. The 15* HPOP is useful to anyone wanting a core or anyone wanting another pump for an OBS. I don't see anything wrong with parts from an E99...

 

Quite true. I curently have 3 ABs and 5 ADs installed in my engine.

 

What are your thoughts on this truck?
2001 f350 with built motor