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Stage one or stage 2 injectors?

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  #16  
Old 08-18-2014, 10:38 PM
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Without advising "what's best", here are things to factor in:

30% are modified stock nozzles.

80% are aftermarket nozzles.

100% are modified aftermarket nozzles.

Stock and 30% are easy to tune for.

80% and 100% require a little more tuning effort to get them smooth at low power (like cruise) and idle.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJNDIVER View Post
While on the subject and following advice, next year i plan to do some injectors and was hoping for thta 350-400 hp range. Less than 400 for fears of the PMRs, is that still the "threshhold" on the PMRs? What would a 160/30 realistically produce? 350? 375? I think if i can get in the 375 range that would be the cats pajamas..... Would the ww2 support that? Or would need to upgrade turbo?
I've never run a setup with 160/30's but I can tell you that with the setup in my sig for the F-250 I dyno'd 350 hp & 700 torque. The Swamps 175/146 single shots (175 cc with stock nnozzles) are similar to 160's with stock nozzles. When I chose this setup 8 years ago there were many threads on the forums about PMR's & windowed blocks. I didn't want to push this motor too much considering this vehicle's main purpose was to haul the 5th wheel camper & family around the country and a daily driver for work. These "stage 1" style injectors, van turbo, Tony's tuning and supporting mods have been a very reliable setup for me over the years. Even though they seem like small injectors compared to some of the other options out there - they pack a nice punch and make pulling the camper fun & easy. Over the years it seems that tuning has more to do with the PMR scare than an actual HP number. Look at Pocket - He's running some much larger injectors with PMR's - and towing with that as well.

The Excursion (Forged rods) is a different story - with the 160/80's, S366 turbo & Tony's tunes she's gotta be somewhere around 400 or more. It doesn't accelerate like the F-250 - it launches. It weighs allot more than my 2WD F-250 and it's faster. EGT's don't get hot and the seat of the pants power feels much higher. Tony e-mailed me 4 programs - I downloaded them on the hydra chip and didn't have to get any adjustments. He nailed it right on for me. Stock, economy, tow, street, extreme. On the drive home from Denver (650 miles) I was pleasantly surprised to average 16 MPG at 75-78 mph, with 33" tires and a lift.

I would think with 160/30's (and supporting mods) that you would be somewhere north of 350 HP and PMR safe with good tuning. Plus with a healthy HPOP you might not need to upgrade that as well. But the stock turbo will need to be upgraded sooner or later.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:47 PM
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Quoted from Cody on a previous thread:

"325-350 RWHP is a very easily-attainable number with 160/0% "
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2014, 11:56 PM
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Noob question: how difficult is it to replace nozzles? Would it be reasonable to have say 160/100s, and if one fails in Peoria grab an off-the-shelf AC from IH and swap nozzles?
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white Buffalo View Post
Quoted from Cody on a previous thread:

"325-350 RWHP is a very easily-attainable number with 160/0% "
I remember that thread/quote :-)
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white Buffalo View Post
Quoted from Cody on a previous thread:

"325-350 RWHP is a very easily-attainable number with 160/0% "
I believe he also told tales of woe about EGT's as well. Hot and smokey comes to mind.
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2014, 08:05 AM
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You can drain the 160 with a stock nozzle, but only with a pretty long Fuel Injector Pulse Width and high Injector Control Pressure - this makes heat and smoke. The magic numbers are 3000 PSI max and 3 ms max. The more fuel you get in there at WOT under that 3ms max, the cooler the EGTs will be and you will get higher HP - but the higher torque is with a smaller nozzle. I went with a bigger nozzle for lower EGTs at full fueling.

That being said, the AC160/stock can put a lot more fuel in there sooner than the stock split-shots, and give you cooler EGTs while towing or working the truck under "normal" conditions. Stage 1 is a serious upgrade from stock, you will not be disappointed. If your goal is to scream down the road with your hair on fire and shred tires, drivelines, and transmission - the 100% nozzles can get it done.

For those who are comfortable with flow graphs:




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  #23  
Old 08-19-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aawlberninf350 View Post
Noob question: how difficult is it to replace nozzles? Would it be reasonable to have say 160/100s, and if one fails in Peoria grab an off-the-shelf AC from IH and swap nozzles?
I wouldn't even try it. The potential for making a mess is too great for me personally. I bought a 9th injector (flow balanced) for this very reason. Maybe somebody else can share their thoughts on this.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:59 AM
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for a visual - Here's a video clip of uw_mitch's setup on Powerstroke Army -

160cc/30% from PIS, LASB turbo, DFI T4 kit, 4" exhaust & some supporting mods

video clip 150/30 PS from stop

forum thread - S366 VS Full Force BASB Bell 300 series Turbo
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugly View Post
Great post, Toreador_Diesel... but I would amend that tuner list a little. Brian at Brian's Transmission Service has good tunes, I just don't know if he's tuning on the Hydra. I would drop PHP off the list for customer service reasons. Without dwelling long on this - I heard the rumors of poor customer service, and I personally learned they were not just rumors.
As did I when I was looking into their FICM tune and modified tune for my 6.0.

Consider the list amended to include BTS tunes...
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