Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Performance, Engines & Troubleshooting > 335 Series- 5.8/351M, 6.6/400, 351 Cleveland
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 08-17-2014, 11:04 PM
hav24wheel's Avatar
hav24wheel hav24wheel is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 9,690
hav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputation
Crank and water pump pulley??

I have a Wagoneer(ya a Jeep Wagonner) with a 78 351M in it. I have a sag power steering pump on it with a double pulley. The waterpump belt also drives the power steering. When I rev the engine fast, the fan belt squeels. Belt doesn't do it with the fan removed from the water pump. So I need a double belt over the water pump. Any stock configuration I can use for this? I'd need a new crank and water pump pulley.






Or add a idler pulley? Is it even possible to run a v belt on the flat side? Something like this.
__________________

Dave

2003 Excursion Limited, V10, 4.88s, 315/75R16s on 16x10s
100% posting from iPhone
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-18-2014, 09:12 AM
Gary Lewis's Avatar
Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northeast, OK
Posts: 19,992
Gary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud of
If yours is like mine the water pump pulley runs off the back sheave on the crank pulley, and that is what it looks like in the pic. If that's the case I don't think you will find a crank pulley that will work as you must have both sheaves you are using exactly the same diameter, and the many pulleys I've looked at all have those two sheaves as different diameters. (I've looked at a lot of pulleys as I'm going to run two belts to my alternator and finally found that mid 80's 302 crank pulleys have the front two sheaves the same diameter.)

As for an idler, yes you can do that. In fact I'm going to do that on my alternator's second belt. And I'm using the standard A/C idler pulley bracket from an 80's 351M/400 but have changes to V-pulley out for a flat serpentine pulley. I can provide a link to where I detailed that if you want.

But, unless you are running a fan without a clutch I don't see why the belt won't handle the load. So if you don't have a fan clutch you should. If you do, make sure the belt is the right width - it should lay down in the pulley almost flush. And, if that doesn't work you might try a trick my father taught me - take a round file/rasp and lay it in the groove of the pulley and tap it with a mallet hard enough to leave little "teeth". Do that all the way around on all three pulleys and that will provide a lot more grip - but doesn't chew up the belt.
__________________
Rusty: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4 w/a 351M, RV cam, Performer carb & intake, C6, & 3.50's
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads, Weiand intake, Street Demon 750/ZF5/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
1969 Super Bee awaiting restoration
1950 Chevy 3100 in queue
Worst fear: I die and my wife sells my rides for what I've told her I have in them.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-18-2014, 09:55 AM
hav24wheel's Avatar
hav24wheel hav24wheel is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 9,690
hav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lewis View Post
If yours is like mine the water pump pulley runs off the back sheave on the crank pulley, and that is what it looks like in the pic. If that's the case I don't think you will find a crank pulley that will work as you must have both sheaves you are using exactly the same diameter, and the many pulleys I've looked at all have those two sheaves as different diameters. (I've looked at a lot of pulleys as I'm going to run two belts to my alternator and finally found that mid 80's 302 crank pulleys have the front two sheaves the same diameter.)

As for an idler, yes you can do that. In fact I'm going to do that on my alternator's second belt. And I'm using the standard A/C idler pulley bracket from an 80's 351M/400 but have changes to V-pulley out for a flat serpentine pulley. I can provide a link to where I detailed that if you want.

But, unless you are running a fan without a clutch I don't see why the belt won't handle the load. So if you don't have a fan clutch you should. If you do, make sure the belt is the right width - it should lay down in the pulley almost flush. And, if that doesn't work you might try a trick my father taught me - take a round file/rasp and lay it in the groove of the pulley and tap it with a mallet hard enough to leave little "teeth". Do that all the way around on all three pulleys and that will provide a lot more grip - but doesn't chew up the belt.

That's exactly what I'm doing. It's a off road rig, and I want maximum air flow at all RPMs. If needed I can always do electric fans, but wanted to stay away from them right now. That file idea sounds like a good idea to me!
__________________

Dave

2003 Excursion Limited, V10, 4.88s, 315/75R16s on 16x10s
100% posting from iPhone
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-18-2014, 04:55 PM
Gary Lewis's Avatar
Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northeast, OK
Posts: 19,992
Gary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud of
If that doesn't work and you consider the dual-belt arrangement you will have to either find a crank pulley with the back two sheaves of the same size or move the belts to the front two sheaves and space the water pump pulley and the P/S pump forward to accept them. And then use the idler. Here's how I'm doing my dual belts to the alternator. As you can see I'm using the stock A/C bracket to hold the idler pulley.

Click the image to open in full size.


And here's the idler itself. That bracket and spacer are the stock 351M A/C idler pulley bracket, although the pulley was supposed to run on the vee side of the belt. And the flat pulley comes from a 460 w/a serpentine system. Turns out the bolt going through the ID of the original pulley's bearing is the right size for the flat pulley's bearing ID. The only things I did were to grind the bolt down just a bit so it doesn't poke through the back of the bracket and hit the A/C bracket, and to put a set screw in the spacer so I could prevent the bolt from backing out.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Rusty: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4 w/a 351M, RV cam, Performer carb & intake, C6, & 3.50's
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads, Weiand intake, Street Demon 750/ZF5/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
1969 Super Bee awaiting restoration
1950 Chevy 3100 in queue
Worst fear: I die and my wife sells my rides for what I've told her I have in them.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-22-2014, 11:08 PM
BuzzLOL BuzzLOL is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Posts: 570
BuzzLOL is starting off with a positive reputation.
.
. I'd put the idler pulley between the crank pulley and water pump pulley (on the alternator side)... because the belt span from water pump to power steering pump has high tension on it... can also try some 'belt dressing' to reduce squeal (especially on an old dry belt)... make sure belt is wide enough to not be riding on the very bottom of the pulley grooves... Tractor Supply carries several flat pulleys with ball bearing...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-25-2014, 01:28 PM
hav24wheel's Avatar
hav24wheel hav24wheel is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 9,690
hav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputation


Got it figured out....
__________________

Dave

2003 Excursion Limited, V10, 4.88s, 315/75R16s on 16x10s
100% posting from iPhone
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-25-2014, 01:46 PM
Gary Lewis's Avatar
Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northeast, OK
Posts: 19,992
Gary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud of
Looks good. But does the one belt handle it w/o slipping now that you have more "purchase" on the pulleys?
__________________
Rusty: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4 w/a 351M, RV cam, Performer carb & intake, C6, & 3.50's
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads, Weiand intake, Street Demon 750/ZF5/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
1969 Super Bee awaiting restoration
1950 Chevy 3100 in queue
Worst fear: I die and my wife sells my rides for what I've told her I have in them.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-25-2014, 01:54 PM
hav24wheel's Avatar
hav24wheel hav24wheel is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 9,690
hav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputationhav24wheel has a superb reputation
Seems to be good. It has prob 75- 100% more belt contact on the water pump than before. I can rev from idle to 6 grand without hearing a peap from the belt.
__________________

Dave

2003 Excursion Limited, V10, 4.88s, 315/75R16s on 16x10s
100% posting from iPhone
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-25-2014, 01:56 PM
Gary Lewis's Avatar
Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is online now
FTE Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northeast, OK
Posts: 19,992
Gary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud ofGary Lewis has much to be proud of
Good idea. That's one that I didn't think of. Duh!
__________________
Rusty: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4 w/a 351M, RV cam, Performer carb & intake, C6, & 3.50's
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads, Weiand intake, Street Demon 750/ZF5/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
1969 Super Bee awaiting restoration
1950 Chevy 3100 in queue
Worst fear: I die and my wife sells my rides for what I've told her I have in them.
Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2014, 01:56 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got a new project. It's part everything. Got to love AMC hav24wheel Offroad & 4x4 89 12-15-2014 01:12 PM
Factory double belt over the waterpump?? hav24wheel 1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 13 08-25-2014 07:56 PM
Dave's (hav24wheel) Excursion mods. hav24wheel Excursion - King of SUVs 45 01-23-2014 01:01 PM
New year new thread hav24wheel North Dakota Chapter 50 02-25-2013 07:30 AM
2003 with factory remote starter? hav24wheel Excursion - King of SUVs 3 11-18-2012 09:31 AM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Performance, Engines & Troubleshooting > 335 Series- 5.8/351M, 6.6/400, 351 Cleveland

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


Participate In The Forums

Create new posts and participate in discussions. It's free!

Sign Up »





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup