Because I live in the mountains and deal with steep terrain I decided to wire up my EBPV to use as an Exhaust Brake and was wondering (now of course that it is done) should I be wary on anything such as back feed to the PCM, Should I run 910(?) valve springs to prevent valve float? And also I did not do a TC lock up switch yet, would that be a good idea? I'm pretty sure you don't want to use this at low rpm and to use it on long steep down hills correct? What else am I missing here?

 

Hoo boy... that's a loaded one.

First, there is an engine braking (or Decel) tune available from some of the tuning guys. You hit the switch, the EBPV activates, the TC locks, and your truck is slowing without brakes, coming down from Mt Rose (on the lake side). I've done it.

At full EBPV while decelerating, the EBP reaches near MAX reading on the sensor - under the right conditions. The PCM can modulate the EBPV to prevent that kind of backpressure, but tuners haven't modulated the EBPV yet.

PHP lists reasons why they don't sell a decel tune, and I read it - but I can't recall what points they included or excluded. Here are my thoughts:

A straight-up EBPV brake without modulation is risky on an old truck, but the 910 springs should protect against damage. That being said, my Stage II sticks and 38R (red line attached and working) make just as much backpressure on the exhaust valves at WOT as the EBPV has in the decel tune. That's not saying the EBPV won't make even more pressure at a higher RPM - like going 70 down a steep grade with the EBPV active and downshifting to 3rd gear. A gawd-awful crash goes off in my head just writing that down.

Using the EBPV for decel is not without risk, but I haven't yet read an instance where this caused a catastrophic failure. That's not to say it hasn't happened, and if it has - I don't know the circumstances behind that failure (like a high-mileage engine, poor shifting practices, a modified EBPV, using the throttle with it active, or combinations thereof). The EBPV can only block so much air, the butterfly valve is cut in a way that allows exhaust to flow when fully closed. To play it safe, you might consider putting a physical block on the control arm to prevent full closure - limiting how much backpressure can build. Even with that, the wastegate should already be a "fuse" of sorts, if it's not preloaded to excessive backpressure. I'll clarify: If you have a properly-working wastegate that hasn't been modified to build more than 40 PSI backpressure (many tunes reach this at WOT), it's difficult to exceed the limits of your exhaust valve springs.

Now that that's been covered - here's the sauce on that particular goose: As our trucks age, the valve guides start to leak some of that backpressure up into the valve covers. This can make bubbles in the oil, but those bubbles usually break up before they reach the oil pan. Under the right conditions, it can foam the oil - which doesn't break up quickly. This foam can then get sucked into the LPOP and get some good aeration going - then the HPOP really takes it to the next level. In theory, you could find yourself with the engine running "weird" and having terrible cackle shortly after using the decel tune. Once this starts, it may or may not clear up - but it always goes away after the truck has set a while.

 

This is not me talking here, this is from Jacobs Vehicle Systems. Do whatever you want with this information.

 

Here is a picture of our lifter in the head - my inspection camera reached deep inside to get this shot.

 

Thanks Rich and Pikachu for the info. Sorry it took me son long to get back as I have been having some pain today something is going on where I am having nerve pain shooting up my spine and down my left arm not sure whats going on but not good so again I apologize for taking so long and hope I am making sense here as the pain meds are screwing with m thought process, stuff is no good.

Back to the mod! This is sort of a tricky mod here as I here some are 50/50 on it some that have done it correctly love it and others say to stay away from it. The truck does have 203k miles on it so doing the 910 valve springs probably wouldn't be a bad idea either way and the transmission had an overhaul at 168k miles with the heavier duty valve body and torque converter. So the next step to take is (correct me if this is not as important) the 910 valve springs and then wire up the TC to an on/off switch to help with flow pressure. If so do you know what wire to tap into?

Rich, now that I am living off of Mt. Rose HWY and am constantly going over it and I would like to make this work. The correct way of this mod probably is to have a decal tune but at the moment the truck is not a 100% for a tuner and at the moment the up pipes are leaking pretty bad along with a nasty oil leak which I believe is the pan gasket and also want to get the E99 updated to the 99.5. I already have the billet plenums from Clay just need up pipes, larger spider and Garret 38R. Dr.'s still won't let me go back to work so money is tight and that stuff is on hold for the moment.

 

Rich, U still have the EBPV with the 38R? Most remove it. I wouldn't think it puts anymore back pressure then an exhaust brake. Still not recommended by Ford. I think that is why some tuners don't like it.

 

It gets real cold up here in the winter, and the EBPV speeds up the warming process (according to EOT and the EGT gauges). It also helps when I need backpressure for testing something on the engine - I just put the truck in warm-up tune.

 

Same here, It gets really cold and my EBPV works just fine and most defiantly want to keep it. And after rereading my post it sounds like I'm repeating myself and going no where with it so i'll try again...

Can't do tuner yet, will install 910 valve springs which sound necessary, and will put in TC lock up switch.

Rich, do you know if your TC locks up as soon as decal tune is activated and when does the TC go out of lock up because I will probably have lock mine up manually when I turn on the EBPV. Even though this sounds like a real delicate operation am I missing anything else to make this achievable. I'll try and find the TC lock up wire to tap into and will post once I find it and will also look more into what needs to be looked out for when using. Probably the best thing to get is a EBP gauge.

 

Hang in there Scotty! A bit of meds, a bit of keeping your body where it wants to be, that's the ticket.

My experience is with the DP Tuner F5 decel tune. I've used it towing the 5er and it is very effective and I've had no problems on a 195k motor with stock valve springs. With a 9k trailer I can take a 7% grade and hardly hit the brakes. That's frikken gold right there. The tune locks the proper clutches in the trans to make the deceleration effective. It has little effect at low RPM, need to gear down to get 2500 RPM or so to see the benefit. The tune is only decel, to accelerate you need to select another tune. So there's the basic info on Jody's decel tune. I do not think a switch on the EBPV and the torque converter is as good. There is time to save your shekels and do it right with a fully tested and engineered solution.

My understanding is the EBPV is designed to pass a fair amount of exhaust and so it's less effective, and thus safer, than a real dedicated exhaust brake.

 

Thanks David, Dealing with a spine injury from a 14 ft fall and just want to be done with it .

I'm glad to see that it is working well and lifted my concerns a bit from you and Tugly, Just need to do correctly with a tuner. I'll play with it for a bit but will go with the tuner eventually. Like you said it's gold! I drove semis in Tahoe for years (fell off the top of the high sided trailer) and there is nothing like an engine brake. I know I won't get engine brake quality but anything helps!

 

I've had a DP tuner mod for years that acts like a brake. It works well going down hills with a LOADED 5th wheel behind my 02 F350 7.3. Hills are pretty steep and I only need minimum braking to keep the speed at acceptable levels.
I just picked up a Banks exhaust brake (not completely installed yet) so I can't comment on that. I did speak with John Woods of Woods automotive. He didn't think there would be a problem with the brake. On Monday, I'm going down to Performance Diesel for new injectors. I'll be asking them their opinion and advise. I'll post their answer later.
In years gone by, I had a 12 valve Dodge/Cummins with an exhaust brake and never had a valve problem so I'm hoping the same will be true here.

 

A few things take place in the transmission to get the decel tune to work properly, and don't think the decel tune is weak - it will make your head lunge forward when you select it (truck empty). I used my decel tune from the summit of Mt Rose going toward the lake, and I could not keep up to the speed limit with full decel. The temptation is to add fuel, but that would drive the EBP readings into NASA territory.

Switching the decel on and off has its own risks. It is entirely possible the EBPV can get stuck closed, and the only way to clear it is to stop and restart the engine. This happened to me on more than one occasion, including my Mt Rose run. I later learned there was a flaw in the exhaust housing casting on the turbo... but a little filing removed the offending "tag" from the exhaust housing outlet.

I wouldn't buy an EBP gauge. I would use your AE to look at the sensor on the OBDII until you know the unit's behavior.

One thing I completely spaced off: I think we have a "fuse". The wastegate is preloaded to let go if the backpressure is too great, I think I'll go back and edit my first post. I had great luck with my "Snake Brake" (decel tunes hiss crazy loud, but it sure sounds cool with the passenger window open), so it's not a bad way to go.

Oh man... that light bulb just explained a mystery I had: When going down grades with the decel tune active, there were times when Stinky sounded like a semi with a Jake Brake (gah-gah-gah from under the hood). Other times he would just hiss without the Jake noise. A venting wastegate would give the grand gahs.

 

I have a manually activated set up on my pickup which uses the EBPV as an exhaust brake. What I do is turn off OD which activates the coast clutch solenoid and begins to provide engine braking effect. I then use the service brakes to reduce speed to where I can manually pull into second gear. I then flip a switch to close the EBPV and another to lock up the TC. I then cruise like that the rest of the way down the mountain. If I need to accelerate or climb again, I open the EBPV, release my control of the TC and shift into D as necessary. General rule of thumb for safety.....descent a grade at the same speed you would climb it. For very steep hills that is about 45-50 mph for my truck/trailer combo.

It's a little bit like flying the space shuttle but much preferable than NOT having the exhaust brake effect. I've been using my EBPV as an exhaust brake for 8 or 9 years now. Stock valve springs are fine. You need 910 springs if you plan to operate your engine at a higher RPM. Keep your RPMs below 3k while using the brake and you'll be fine.

You don't need an exhaust back pressure gauge. My F450 had a Banks Brake and an exhaust back pressure gauge (mechanical) and I hardly ever looked at the gauge. I watched my speed and RPM mostly and then the rest of the time I kept my eyes on the road. 30,000 lbs going down a 7% grade keeps me focused on the road.

FYI....as mentioned above, My F450 had a Banks Brake. My F250 uses the EBPV. The EBPV is more effective in my opinion. The Banks system is nice since it locks and unlocks the TC and also disables the brake the moment you touch the throttle but I had to use my service brakes to supplement the Banks Brake where I hardly ever have to do that in my pickup. Maybe it's because the F450 weighs so much more? (about 4000 lbs more when pulling the same trailer...)

I will attach a wiring diagram from JTHarvey that may help you out. I wouldn't bother with the automatic mode....I end up using manual mode 100% of the time any so you may choose to simplify the diagram a bit.

The TC solenoid control wire is Violet with Yellow stripe. (PCM pin out #54) Click on the pdf file that I attached at the bottom of this post...

Happy towing!

 

Wow, that is awesome! Thank you my friends. Going to move forward without the 910 valve springs, do NOT plan on going over 3k RPM's. Doing much better today so going to go work on the ol beast.

Will post up some pics when finished and will try the U-tube thing to show a vid of it working.

 

Reading Shake0n-Bake's post reminded me of one of my own I posted on this topic awhile back, and to which he also contributed:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ls-or-not.html

Mark