Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Older, Classic & Antique Trucks > 1947 and Older Ford Trucks
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 08-12-2014, 11:39 AM
Arcdancer Arcdancer is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prosser, WA
Posts: 11
Arcdancer is starting off with a positive reputation.
41 ford transmission conversion

I have recently taken over the completion of a 41 Ford Van. It was used as a Railroad Express Delivery van. It has been had a complete frame off restoration and is mostly complete. I am focusing on getting it running and being able to use it in local parades and events. The truck belongs to the Yakima Valley Rail & Steam Museum. After adding an electric fuel pump and an electric fan for cooling, I've dealt with most running issues. The issue that I would Like to address now is the transmission. The truck originally came with a 3 speed top loader (#78-7006). This is unsuitable for use in parades due to not having a low enough 1st gear. What I need help with is finding the proper transmission and any additional parts in order to convert to a 4 speed, low 1st gear transmission. I would like to keep as much of the setup the same as the original but am not adverse to making some minor alterations if needed. I would like to keep the top loader look if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Arcdancer
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-12-2014, 09:43 PM
38 coupe's Avatar
38 coupe 38 coupe is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,294
38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.
Welcome to the Forum.

We need more information before we can be really helpful.

First, are you aware that the "granny" gear four speed truck transmissions have no synchronizers (frequently called a "crash-box" transmission)? You have to double-clutch every gear change.

Second, what size is your railway express truck? Is it 1/2 ton based, 3 or 1 ton based, or 1 /2 ton based? The 1/2 ton trucks take a different rear transmission mount than the larger trucks. Also, 4 1/2 tons used a torque tube while the larger trucks used open drive.

Finally, what region of the world do you live in? Many members have an extra Ford four speed crash box. You are probably fairly close to a few members.

Do you have any pictures of the truck you could post? We like pictures!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-12-2014, 11:07 PM
Arcdancer Arcdancer is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prosser, WA
Posts: 11
Arcdancer is starting off with a positive reputation.
Click the image to open in full size.

1941 Ford Railway Express Van


Here is a picture taken about a year ago. Additional painting and decals have been added now and the focus now is to get the trucking dependably. I will try to get some more updated photos soon.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-12-2014, 11:20 PM
okie pete okie pete is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Willow Springs
Posts: 109
okie pete is starting off with a positive reputation.
Very nice .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-13-2014, 12:59 PM
Arcdancer Arcdancer is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prosser, WA
Posts: 11
Arcdancer is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 38 coupe View Post
Welcome to the Forum.

We need more information before we can be really helpful.

First, are you aware that the "granny" gear four speed truck transmissions have no synchronizers (frequently called a "crash-box" transmission)? You have to double-clutch every gear change.

Second, what size is your railway express truck? Is it 1/2 ton based, 3 or 1 ton based, or 1 /2 ton based? The 1/2 ton trucks take a different rear transmission mount than the larger trucks. Also, 4 1/2 tons used a torque tube while the larger trucks used open drive.

Finally, what region of the world do you live in? Many members have an extra Ford four speed crash box. You are probably fairly close to a few members.

Do you have any pictures of the truck you could post? We like pictures!
Thanks for the information on the "crash-box 4 speed. That's defiantly something to consider before making a final decision on a way to go.

I believe that the truck is a 1/2 ton, but it could be a 1 ton. I posted a picture that may help you identify the size. I'm going to take some more current photos tomorrow and will post them so people can see the near finished truck.

I live in the Central part of Washington State.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-13-2014, 09:52 PM
1952henry's Avatar
1952henry 1952henry is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mandan, ND
Posts: 872
1952henry is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
5 lug 17" wheels with a full floating rearend= 1 ton.
__________________
Hands OFF! Don't LOOT!!!

I mine coal, therefore I proudly contribute to man-made warming (and lighting)...of your home, garage, shop, church, business, school, hospital, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-13-2014, 10:29 PM
38 coupe's Avatar
38 coupe 38 coupe is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,294
38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.
You have a nice looking truck. We'd love to see more pictures of it.

Your truck sure looks like a one ton to me. I think any four speed crash box from a 3/4 ton or larger Ford truck built from 1941 to 1952 would work for you.

Another option is to find one of the very desirable, and rare, early Borg-Warner T98 transmissions from a 48-52 Ford truck. The T98 is synchronized in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. These were optional in F-4 through F-6 trucks, and standard in F-6 trucks equipped with M series six cylinder engines. Chuck at Chuck's Trucks is knowledgeable about the early T98 transmissions and may have enough parts to let you build (or build for you) a transmission that would fit your truck. If you do find and install a T98 you will need to shorten the drive shaft that goes between your transmission and carrier bearing.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-14-2014, 11:40 PM
Arcdancer Arcdancer is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prosser, WA
Posts: 11
Arcdancer is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 38 coupe View Post
You have a nice looking truck. We'd love to see more pictures of it.

Your truck sure looks like a one ton to me. I think any four speed crash box from a 3/4 ton or larger Ford truck built from 1941 to 1952 would work for you.

Another option is to find one of the very desirable, and rare, early Borg-Warner T98 transmissions from a 48-52 Ford truck. The T98 is synchronized in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. These were optional in F-4 through F-6 trucks, and standard in F-6 trucks equipped with M series six cylinder engines. Chuck at Chuck's Trucks is knowledgeable about the early T98 transmissions and may have enough parts to let you build (or build for you) a transmission that would fit your truck. If you do find and install a T98 you will need to shorten the drive shaft that goes between your transmission and carrier bearing.
It's interesting that you should mention the T98 because I was looking through a back room here at the museum and I found a old toploader with these makings: Left side - T98-1R under that it says W.G. Div. 9W
Top - T98-148
Could this be what you are talking about? I don't know what the condition is but initially it doesn't look to bad. Would this just bolt up or would I need to get an adapter? Availability?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-15-2014, 08:37 AM
38 coupe's Avatar
38 coupe 38 coupe is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,294
38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.
The T98 was made for 30 years or more for several manufacturers: I am aware of Ford, International, and Jeep T98s, and there may be others. I have personally never seen one of the early Ford T98s so I don't know what to tell you to look for. The big truck restoration guys in the 48-56 Forum can probably help you more with your T98.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:09 PM
Arcdancer Arcdancer is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prosser, WA
Posts: 11
Arcdancer is starting off with a positive reputation.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


I took these pictures just after a big wind storm so the truck is not in it's cleanest condition. There are several pictures of the transmission that is in the truck now. The one I want to replace with a 4 speed.
There are still some wiring issues I need to clean up but everything seems to be coming together.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:47 PM
1952henry's Avatar
1952henry 1952henry is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mandan, ND
Posts: 872
1952henry is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Sure is nice looking!
__________________
Hands OFF! Don't LOOT!!!

I mine coal, therefore I proudly contribute to man-made warming (and lighting)...of your home, garage, shop, church, business, school, hospital, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-16-2014, 01:44 AM
GB SISSON's Avatar
GB SISSON GB SISSON is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Orcas Island Wa.
Posts: 2,721
GB SISSON has a great reputation on FTE.GB SISSON has a great reputation on FTE.GB SISSON has a great reputation on FTE.GB SISSON has a great reputation on FTE.GB SISSON has a great reputation on FTE.GB SISSON has a great reputation on FTE.
Holy Cow! You are killing me with that thing! A fine tonner you got there. You have one of the few modern improvements I often incorporate. An alternator. Nobody likes a dead battery......Love the color combo too. Dang, that's nice.
__________________
'92 F350 4x4 dual wheel service truck. 7.3 with headers and glass packs. 5 sp man tran. 255 85 16 Toyos. 110,000 miles. '59 F350 9' flareside new project, cummins 6at turbo diesel, sm 465 4 spd. 255 85 16s again, 37 ford 1 1/2 ton stake with 53 flathead V8. 65 toyota landcruiser fj 45 longbed pickup. 54 GMC 3/4 ton flatbed w/ cummins 6at, '68 BSA 441 Victor Special, bone stock, Antique tractors and one lung flywheel engines .....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-16-2014, 09:11 AM
38 coupe's Avatar
38 coupe 38 coupe is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,294
38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.38 coupe has a good reputation on FTE.
Thanks for posting more pictures. Your truck looks very nice.

One concern I have is the that appears to run directly over your exhaust pipe and over your front u-joint. I'm not sure if that is a brake line, fuel line, or something else, but you probably want to route that in a different place. Boiled fluid from exhaust heat or leaking fluid from rubbing on the drive shaft can ruin your day.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-16-2014, 07:52 PM
Rusty_Old_F250's Avatar
Rusty_Old_F250 Rusty_Old_F250 is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 1,523
Rusty_Old_F250 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Rusty_Old_F250 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I won't be much help with the transmission, but I do remember the museum well! Before I discovered trucks, trains was my primary interest. My grandfather always took me to see the 2152 when it was still in Auburn. I was glad to see the engine go to good hands!

Sam
__________________
1973 F250, 390 4spd 7500 lbs GVWR, renamed "Old Ugly." It fits.
next project: 1966 Mustang 200 3spd- sat for 17 years!
"Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him." - Groucho Marx
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-17-2014, 01:36 PM
51504BAT's Avatar
51504BAT 51504BAT is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal - Redlands
Posts: 134
51504BAT is starting off with a positive reputation.
41 ford transmission conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcdancer View Post
I have recently taken over the completion of a 41 Ford Van. It was used as a Railroad Express Delivery van. It has been had a complete frame off restoration and is mostly complete. I am focusing on getting it running and being able to use it in local parades and events. The truck belongs to the Yakima Valley Rail & Steam Museum. After adding an electric fuel pump and an electric fan for cooling, I've dealt with most running issues. The issue that I would Like to address now is the transmission. The truck originally came with a 3 speed top loader (#78-7006). This is unsuitable for use in parades due to not having a low enough 1st gear. What I need help with is finding the proper transmission and any additional parts in order to convert to a 4 speed, low 1st gear transmission. I would like to keep as much of the setup the same as the original but am not adverse to making some minor alterations if needed. I would like to keep the top loader look if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Arcdancer
If you want full syncro's in a 4 speed and the top loader look you could consider a mid 60's top loader trans with a Jeep T-176 shift tower. It will bolt up to the flathead using a Model Engineering Company adapter. You still use your original clutch linkage and have the top loader look with a much easier to shift trans than a 4 speed crash box. Fab a new trans mount and shorten the drive shaft and you're good to go. You won't have the super low granny gear but I doubt you will need it for everyday driving.










__________________

Making the simple complicated for over 30 years
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 01:36 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New guy at forum Arcdancer New Member Introductions 2 08-13-2014 03:13 PM
AOD transmission shifts from 3rd to overdrive with a bang sound THE BLUE HEAP 1968-2013 Full Size Vans 1 06-24-2013 05:10 PM
yakima rack wind whistle solutions? hasteranger Excursion - King of SUVs 5 08-02-2012 09:44 PM
truck inspection needed in Yakima abyars111 Washington Chapter 1 04-15-2012 01:36 PM
Sylmar Museum G2G March 10th 10AM wpnaes California, Southern Chapter 24 03-10-2012 06:22 PM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Older, Classic & Antique Trucks > 1947 and Older Ford Trucks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


Participate In The Forums

Create new posts and participate in discussions. It's free!

Sign Up »





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup