Trozei's '69 F100 Build Thread
#1501
#1503
WEN...that is a good one.
Green stamps!! Ya, used to collect them at the gas station, put them in books and then buy stuff. That goes back to late 70's? Don't remember them much after that.
The only bad part about those EZ wiring kits.....is the fuse panel is not marked for what all the fuses are. I just installed one of those in a 41 ****** project. I've been wanting to contact them and see if they actually produce a layout of the fuse panel. The car is just starting to come together after 4yrs, so I need to get around to it soon.
Green stamps!! Ya, used to collect them at the gas station, put them in books and then buy stuff. That goes back to late 70's? Don't remember them much after that.
The only bad part about those EZ wiring kits.....is the fuse panel is not marked for what all the fuses are. I just installed one of those in a 41 ****** project. I've been wanting to contact them and see if they actually produce a layout of the fuse panel. The car is just starting to come together after 4yrs, so I need to get around to it soon.
#1504
And as for crimpers, these would be a good addition to your box and will have the capability to crimp dang near any style terminal.
S&G Tool Aid 18980 Quick Change Ratcheting Terminal Crimping Kit with 9 Die Sets | eBay
S&G Tool Aid 18980 Quick Change Ratcheting Terminal Crimping Kit with 9 Die Sets | eBay
I talked to the wiring guy at work after getting the American Autowire kit and he was very thankful that I did not get an EZ kit. Keep in mind this guy spends 40 hours a week under a dashboard. He said the EZ quality is poor, the wires are not marked, the fuse panel isn't even hooked up, the terminal ends if any aren't hooked up, and the instructions are lacking on how to go about the install. Doesn't sound like a fun time to me.
He said American Autowire was very good but his only gripe was that the wires don't come pre-bundled like Painless in groups as for which wires go to the rear, which go to the dash, which go to the front... stuff like that. Minor gripe but it makes his installs easier on a Painless kit. I think he said the terminal ends aren't attached either. Can't remember. Oh well, I don't think I'll be disappointed with my kit from Tim.
I got started on my tailgate. Wasn't able to do it at home with the equipment I had so I took it into the shop early Saturday morning.
How I do patches now, I cleco or self-tap my patch on top of the bad area and then use tape as a cutting guide and cut them both out at the same time. This way they are perfectly shaped to each other and the root gap is consistent all around.
As expected, the entire inside of the tailgate was rusty. The only real way to fix that is to split open the tailgate, treat it, and then weld it back together. That's not really worth the effort though, so I wire wheeled what was visible and after paint I'll coat it all with wax oil spray to get some more life out of it. Will it last until I die? Probably not. Will it last me 5, maybe 10 years? Yeah it will. It should, at least. That's good enough. I'll buy a Dennis Carpenter tailgate eventually which is fully galvanized.
While waiting for the weld-thru primer to dry on the backside of my patch, I tacked on a brace to hold the tailgate straight during welding. Then I got to zapping it in.
Grind and then check for pinholes by visual inspection and shining a light from one side and looking for said light on the other side. Tailgates makes it easy because the inside is very dark and if there is a pinhole you can see right away when you shine a light at the welds.
And grind.
Repeat on other side.
Duraglas to seal any possible remaining pinholes.
Just have a couple tiny holes here and there to zap back up and a couple dings here and there to fix and then I'll go to town on filler to get it nice and straight. That's something I wish I did on the rest of the truck. Yes, I do wish I used more filler. And that's coming from a guy who would rather get the metal straight.
#1505
Trozei,
It's your truck but I recommend no solder; a properly crimped terminal will last much longer than a improperly soldered terminal. Not saying you don't know how to solder but there is an actual science to it and if you do it incorrectly the WIRE in the sheath will fail prematurely at the terminal. It is hard to detect as well. I have read of guys not even making it a year before wire failure who tried to solder. I am in the aviation industry; I talk to electrical engineers all the time. You know how many terminals are soldered in a airplane or helicopter? Very very few and those are usually in components. There is a reason. We have specific engineering bulletins where I work. Just like welders; electricians have to pass stringent soldering tests before they solder; Less than half can pass. Just like welders, their joints are put through destructive and non destructive testing. Honestly, a proper crimp with a proper solder with adhesive lined heat shrink is the best; but far from necessary. IMO you are just wasting your time and not really gaining anything over proper crimp with adhesive heat shrink. Again, not a jab at your soldering skills, just basing it off of my experienced and what I know is a correct solder joint. With that being said, I can pass the test and never solder in automotive applications. Mainly because it adds cost to my customer but is also unnecessarily redundant.
As far as the painless kit and the American Autowire kit; I think your buddy has that backwards. The AA kit is bundled per area of the truck. I do not think the painless kit I used was. At least it was not packaged nearly as well as the AA kit. And the instructions were absolutely horrid. Neither of the kits have ALL the terminal ends on them. Some wires need shortening so they leave them off. As a installer, I prefer the ends are not on so I can run the wire to the length I want it then terminate. Trust me, I have experience with both the Painful and the AA kits; the AA is much better. Also, the AA kit just feels heavier to me.
Regardless, I think you will be very happy with the AA kit and look forward to your review.
It's your truck but I recommend no solder; a properly crimped terminal will last much longer than a improperly soldered terminal. Not saying you don't know how to solder but there is an actual science to it and if you do it incorrectly the WIRE in the sheath will fail prematurely at the terminal. It is hard to detect as well. I have read of guys not even making it a year before wire failure who tried to solder. I am in the aviation industry; I talk to electrical engineers all the time. You know how many terminals are soldered in a airplane or helicopter? Very very few and those are usually in components. There is a reason. We have specific engineering bulletins where I work. Just like welders; electricians have to pass stringent soldering tests before they solder; Less than half can pass. Just like welders, their joints are put through destructive and non destructive testing. Honestly, a proper crimp with a proper solder with adhesive lined heat shrink is the best; but far from necessary. IMO you are just wasting your time and not really gaining anything over proper crimp with adhesive heat shrink. Again, not a jab at your soldering skills, just basing it off of my experienced and what I know is a correct solder joint. With that being said, I can pass the test and never solder in automotive applications. Mainly because it adds cost to my customer but is also unnecessarily redundant.
As far as the painless kit and the American Autowire kit; I think your buddy has that backwards. The AA kit is bundled per area of the truck. I do not think the painless kit I used was. At least it was not packaged nearly as well as the AA kit. And the instructions were absolutely horrid. Neither of the kits have ALL the terminal ends on them. Some wires need shortening so they leave them off. As a installer, I prefer the ends are not on so I can run the wire to the length I want it then terminate. Trust me, I have experience with both the Painful and the AA kits; the AA is much better. Also, the AA kit just feels heavier to me.
Regardless, I think you will be very happy with the AA kit and look forward to your review.
#1507
#1508
Trozie, I see no problem soldering the connectors. It is fairly easyas long as you practice first. I do not like crimps because you dont get full contact with the wire like you do soldering. Yes I do know what I am doing as I am NASA certified for soldering and inspection, but I believe with your attention to detail you will be fine.
#1509
Haha, two highly credited people with two opposite opinions. Oh joy. If a crimp can be trusted for years I have no problem doing that. I just don't want to re-do anything.
Also as far as what I was told, it was a week of very little sleep and I do actually have poor memory so perhaps I am repeating incorrect info, but I never did claim it to be 100% factual.
Also as far as what I was told, it was a week of very little sleep and I do actually have poor memory so perhaps I am repeating incorrect info, but I never did claim it to be 100% factual.
#1511
Like I said it is your truck and you need to do what you want. Here are my thoughts about what was said above.
1. I fully agree a proper crimp with proper solder the adhesive lined HS is the BEST.
2. The wiring that came with your truck had all the connections crimped from 40years ago and pretty much still works? right?
3. I guarantee you will realize ZERO difference in the performance or longevity of a crimped system compared to a soldered system. Is it measurable? Sure. Is it detrimental? No.
4. Yes, you have great attention to detail, no doubt, but have you been trained on proper solder joint? Just because you have great attention to detail does not mean you know how to do a process properly. That is a general statement for anybody....Not directed at Trozei. TIG welding is a great example I have. I have seen thousands of TIG welds that looked beautiful on the outside but after inspection they wouldn't come close to passing the weld requirements where I work. lack of penetration, lack of fusion, etc....
5. If you want to solder, See if you can find some videos on proper joint solder and one that has examples of what not to do. Honestly, soldering is pretty easy in my opinion; it's the things you shouldn't do that will get you. More is not better and location is critical.
6. A spaceship is used once a year, aircraft are used every day, automobiles are used everyday. I can't think of one single car or aircraft I have worked on that had soldered joints. And that is a LONG list.
1. I fully agree a proper crimp with proper solder the adhesive lined HS is the BEST.
2. The wiring that came with your truck had all the connections crimped from 40years ago and pretty much still works? right?
3. I guarantee you will realize ZERO difference in the performance or longevity of a crimped system compared to a soldered system. Is it measurable? Sure. Is it detrimental? No.
4. Yes, you have great attention to detail, no doubt, but have you been trained on proper solder joint? Just because you have great attention to detail does not mean you know how to do a process properly. That is a general statement for anybody....Not directed at Trozei. TIG welding is a great example I have. I have seen thousands of TIG welds that looked beautiful on the outside but after inspection they wouldn't come close to passing the weld requirements where I work. lack of penetration, lack of fusion, etc....
5. If you want to solder, See if you can find some videos on proper joint solder and one that has examples of what not to do. Honestly, soldering is pretty easy in my opinion; it's the things you shouldn't do that will get you. More is not better and location is critical.
6. A spaceship is used once a year, aircraft are used every day, automobiles are used everyday. I can't think of one single car or aircraft I have worked on that had soldered joints. And that is a LONG list.
#1512
I am in the middle of this discussion. It depends on where one is working whether it be crimp or solder. If we are talking a terminal end, then I agree to crimp. As O' Henry did. But if the connection being made is midline in the wiring, then I would solder and use shrink tubing over it. When you solder make sure you make a hot solder joint. Not a cold solder joint. Heat the wire connection 1st with the solder gun. Adding the solder in then will create the solder to be shiny. Shiny solder joint is correct and was a hot solder joint. If the solder goes on there and remains a dull,flat color, it is a cold solder joint. Not good.
Now, according to Ford, Tim is right. Below is a pic of Motorcraft part number WT56815. It is a kit with 5 Ford approved splices and 5 dual wall adhesive shrink tubing. Meant for 16-14 AWG wire. The part number for 22-18 AWG is WT56814.
Now, according to Ford, Tim is right. Below is a pic of Motorcraft part number WT56815. It is a kit with 5 Ford approved splices and 5 dual wall adhesive shrink tubing. Meant for 16-14 AWG wire. The part number for 22-18 AWG is WT56814.
#1513
I agree. Soldering splices is a good idea. I did not do it on mine for what it is worth. Just make sure when you solder you do not let the solder wick up into the wire sheath. It will definitely fail in time. Also, what Jeff said about shiny solder is true.
I looked the engineering process order we have at work for soldering requirements and application; it is 80 pages long That is about four times as long as our welding spec! Must be important?
I looked the engineering process order we have at work for soldering requirements and application; it is 80 pages long That is about four times as long as our welding spec! Must be important?