Hi, I have a dog business and am hunting a used econoline cargo van to outfit with AC for moving dog in air-conditioned comfort in TX. I don;t know these vehicles and am hoping someone who is really familiar with them can wise me up on a few things:

1) What is difference between E150 and E250?

2) I see a very few econoline vans in the ads that have what looks like an OEM finished interior-- grey plastic panels covering entire inside, with cargo tracks on each side. What was this option called, is there a particular model that it showed up in most often? is it possible to buy this paneling and retrofit a van with it? Where would I get it?

3) I think I've decided I want a sliding door cargo van, no windows in door or cargo bay (only back doors and occupant doors), hopefuly E150 rather than 250 (don't need heavy duty), with the grey plastic paneling finishing out the entire inside (I'll put insulation behind it and put AC in the cargo bay for the dogs). Any ideas on how I can locate this particular van? Any year or package I should look at to find these options?

Thanks for any help.

k9dr

 

Wow you're building a climate controlled van just for your dog? I drive around 10 to 12 hours a day in my Econoline with broken A/C and I'm a human.

 

OP has a dog business, not hauling just one dawg!

Short answers:

Do NOT shy away from an E250 or think an E150 will be suitable for your longer term needs. The E250's additional weight capacity would easily support any modifications or additions made to the cargo bay to suit your business. Additionally the E250's will be more plentiful and should the need arise easier to sell.

E150's tend to have lighter duty frames, brakes, springs--in general just lighter duty all around. At some point E150's essentially melded into the same specs and frames as the E250's---I have no idea what year though. (Others here will know, I don't keep track of such things as I'm strickly E250!) An easy way to tell dedicated E150's is by their lug nut count; 5=E150, 8=E250.

E250's are NOT harsh riding vehicles even when empty but they're also NOT sofa's on wheels either---they're trucks. Same for the E150's however the 5 lug versions tend to be so soft in the suspension they're not capable of handling too much weight before a mushy feeling arises while driving. Some will perhaps dispute this but honestly I'm not a fan of that type feeling or what I surmise is a safety issue re: handling, stability etc.

In short look for and buy an E250---you're money ahead in the long run.

What you'll find in the used market depends 100% on the range you're willing to travel finding the best deal. Typically within the local market there seems always to be nothing available suitable to your needs.

The grey paneling and cargo control rails are typically added by an aftermarket outfit or the previous owner. They were and are added to anything and as such not necessarily seen more often on one version than another. It depends only on the previous owners uses/needs whether that package is part of what's being sold.

Those packages are available if you have about $1800 just for the plastic inner walls. Cargo track is separate and is added as needed. OTOH coupling the lighter duty E150 with that sort of cargo handling/control feature goes against logic, IMHO anyway.

While your idea to insulate the rear area is fine adding rear A/C similar to the factory style is unadvised as it would be quite expensive. I could see the cost of that running $2500 or more at the least. Parts are insanely crazy and labor for a proper installation ain't cheap either.

Your idea or desire to have a certain configuration of door types and glass or no glass isn't terribly practical since you'd be limiting your available choices even if you're searching nationwide.

The sliding side door is a great idea in theory but really why do you believe its best for you? They take away some of the side cargo loading area, tend to require more maintenance than the "barn door" configuration yet rarely receive it. I'd guess no more than 10-20% of all E-Series vans have the sliding door so maybe that says something?

If you were shopping for a brand new van prior to 2014 you could have this any way you wanted. In the used market you opt for the best overall deal, factor in what it'll cost getting to your useful state and buy whatever fits that bill.

Co-incidentally I've seen a few dog grooming vans for sale but being someone who can live very well without such a burden I've passed them by, no interest here!

Best of luck with your search!

 

I agree on the purchase of the e250 over the e150. I have had both and enjoy the e250 much better. More room (5 of us and a dog) and more versatility hauling stuff etc.

If it were me I would nail down the mechanical stuff you need. Sounds like the only REAL need is for rear A/C. I would assume you are also looking at a decent body and mechanically sound. I would think that it would be difficult to find the rear A/C in a cargo style (no windows in the rear) since the rear A/C was added for passengers.

The real question is "How handy are you and how much customization work do you want to do?". For me, I would look for an e250 in good mechanical condition and rear A/C regardless of the interior layout. Then once you get it pull the interior and customize it to suit you.

Just my 2 cents

 

JWA has great advice, and I will note that the 2007 and later E150 IS an E250 with 8 lug wheels, etc. The GVW (gross vehicle weight) of the '07 is in excess of 8500 lbs so the payload will be over 2500 lbs. (Pre-07 GVW's were around 7000-7200 lbs and payloads well under 2000 lbs.)

So if you are looking at 2007 or newer vans, a 150 will be fine. There is a HARD line of demarcation. Sliding door might be hard to find.

I like my 2002 E150 just fine but don't pull a trailer or load heavily--I carry bicycles and musical gear; my heaviest loads have been filling all 7 seats with people on family trips. And the gas mileage of an pre-2007 E150 would be a bit higher because the van is lighter and I believe the P-rated car type tires roll a bit easier. And they do ride better. If your normal load (passengers plus dog plus cargo) will be under ~1000-1500 lbs, I think you would be fine with a 150. The pre-07 150 is also a couple inches under 7 feet in height so it might fit in some garages and car wash racks a bit easier.

Good luck,
George

ps I would wonder if the vans you've seen with side panels are passenger vans (called Club Wagons) with the seats removed? My '02 E150 is a conversion with factory glass and all of the seats behind the front seats will come out easily so I can move Big Stuff like a queen mattress or big couch.

 

Thank you, Gentleman (esp JWA for that detailed response), that is very helpful! Maybe I'll lose the siding door idea....Can anybody tell me where I could look for one of those plastic paneling kits to outfit a cargo van? Is there a manufacturer or company anyone knows of that sells these things?

Course then I need to install aftermarket rear AC, but I know of a company near me that does that at reasonable cost.

The next thing is I just figured out (duh) that they don;t normally supply electric windows and mirrors and cruise control on cargo vans. Hmmmmmm. So maybe I need to buy a passenger van with the frills and the rear AC and take the seats out and replace with dog crates. There is one model that has roll-down shutters that would presumably block sunlight, provide a bit of insulation, and help to keep the interior cool......

Thanks again,

k9dr

PS-- Yes it is a dog business. I train and board dogs for clients, and wind up driving all over central TX in an F150 when it is blazing hot and the clients' dogs are broiling under the camper shell in back while I am chilling out in the AC......

 

There are Ford Club Wagon passenger vans AND many van conversions which started out as cargo vans but had interiors and rear AC, etc. put in by aftermarket conversion companies. Conversions can range from simple and high quality (like mine) to tacky crap with cheap seats and gross fake wood trim, etc. And luxury conversions with leather, raised roofs, etc.

If you go to a dealer or look at some Econoline brochures, you will see that Club Wagons have factory seats, etc. (Note also that there were Chateau Club Wagons that were fancy, with 4 captain's chairs, etc.) Conversions usually have only 3 rows (driver's row, pair of captain's chairs in the center, and a rear bench that usually folds into a bed) with a LOT more legroom than a Club Wagon, which can have up to 4 rows of seats in a regular length van and 5 rows in an extended length van.

Most conversions also have deep windows that were added by the converter--mine has the factory side windows which I prefer for replacement purposes and because the converters sometimes don't rustproof their cuts and this causes rust in Michigan.

You can buy blinds for factory windows and have them made up for most conversion windows. You can also go to a film window tint like a 5% "limo tint" that will block 95% of the light if you get a van without tinted rear glass or even add film to factory tinted glass (which I have). You could also get that cladding on the outside which has pinholes in it--that will block most of the light but allow a bit of visibility while driving. I have heard that you lose the visibility when it's wet, however. Hell, you could cut black cardboard and cover the windows from the inside if you wanted.

Also, Club Wagons will have factory air and heat in the rear, where conversions typically have aftermarket units (mine does) in the back, using the factory lines that run to the back. These probably also range in quality from crappy to good and might be harder to find service/parts for although you could just replace the rear unit entirely.

Most conversions also have add-on fiberglass running boards and many have fancy striped paint jobs, etc.

So go look at some vans and be SURE you know the diff between Club Wagons and conversions. Big vans used to get a bad quality rap because a LOT of converters did really shoddy work, used seats and fabrics that were nowhere near factory quality (but looked nice in the showroom) and fell apart in real life use. I've had 4 big conversions since 1986 (starting with a couple Turtle Top camper conversions that REALLY sucked--like stick on wood grain contact paper--we redid the whole interior in one of them). Then a plushy and decent Imperial conversion on a 1996 GMC van (with blinds and stuff) but the van really stunk.

edit--forgot that I briefly bought and sold a 5th conversion van for a profit--a Chevy Starcraft that was glitzy but getting tired, and all kinds of fancy paintwork on a body that was starting to rust....no way would I want to deal with that body. Guy at work was trading it in and sold it to me for 4 grand and I flipped it for 6 grand...

My current '02 E150 is a GT conversion by d'Elegant using factory windows and molded plastic panels that look a lot like a Club Wagon but with plenty of legroom in the mid and rear rows. (Club Wagons lack legroom because they are set up for 4 rows whether you order the 4th row or not.) And it's white outside with no stripes, small fiberglass running boards that don't cut ground clearance.

I am guessing that most conversions will have seats that come out more easily than Club Wagons.

So get to know the differences before you choose and with any conversion, look closely at condition, sit in the seats, make sure the rear air/heat work, make sure all the interior lights work, etc....

Finally, cargo vans could be had with power windows and locks, etc, but not many were ordered that way. Conversions were typically done on cargo vans with the "RV option" which has chrome bumpers, leather steering wheel, power windows and locks, often have aluminum wheels like mine, and the option of any window glass you wanted. Most conversions had factory glass in the doors and aftermarket cut windows on the left side and right rear, but mine is all tinted factory glass...

George

 

Also, you indicate you're buying used, but if you have a slightly larger budget, the new Transit Connect vans (pre 2014 have the high roof, 2014 are the low roof models) and the Dodge Ram C/V are minivans designed for cargo and will give you better mpg.

I am particularly charmed by the Ram C/V and even that little guy has a payload of 1800 lbs if 155 cubic feet is enough...probably like $22k new but if you drive a LOT of miles you'll make up a lot in gas savings. Dual sliding doors and the interior has all the panels standard with cupholders in the back for your dogs

I feel like a heathen in a Ford forum, but here's the RAM C/V info (and you can order anything from no glass to all glass):
http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ram_cv/

By the way, my '02 E150 with 4.6 will get 17-18 mpg on the road, and my overall average for all 122k miles is over 16 mpg. Not as much oomph as the 5.4 but if you're doing a lot of miles with lighter loads, that is the most economical big van there is...E150 with the 4.6. Goes without saying, but white or silver vans stay way cooler inside than black ones...my Ford is white, my last GMC was black.

George

 

One more note. I would strongly advise against buying any Ford van with the 4.2 V6. They are wimpy, get worse fuel mileage than the 4.6, and have gasket problems which can cause hydrolocking and blow up the motor. One of our good forum friends, WVVan, recently put a rod through his block after putting countless hours into building a camper out of his E van...

George

 

If it were possible to send OP a private message we could direct him/her to another site more dedicated to converting, modifying or otherwise changing the typical van into something more custom-fitted to different needs, Even though that site concentrates on RV-type things its still very helpful for something as relatively sparse as these needs would be by comparison.

The wall liners as they're called can be viewed here: http://www.inlad.com/adrian-steel-co...r?page_id=1053

 

Now you guys are cracking me up. The only auto forums I frequent are a couple of F150 forums. The participants are not always helpful or polite, they raise terseness to a high art, and they are not distinguished by their grammar.

They also appear to be fascinated by strippers.

In this forum people are writing long, helpful posts, pronouncing themselves "charmed" by certain vehicles, and correctly using the subjunctive ("If it were possible......"). And not one of them has called me stupid.

I am delighted to make your acquaintance.

I am not sure why I do not have access to PM's, perhaps it is because I joined less than 5 days ago....

Thanks,

k9dr

PS-- Yup, have to be a member for 10 days, and so forth, before one has access to PMs. Thanks for the term "wall liners" and the link (I was searching for "van paneling" and getting links with photographs of vans with **** carpeting on every possible surface. Now I am on the trail.

 

van people are way cooler than pickup people. A man with a plan and a van is a great american !

 

I have to agree.

Here is something else funny. The auto-censor function on this forum will not allow one to name a certain kind of carpet (especially in vans used for smoking weed and trying to get around the bases with chicks) that was popular when I was a kid......It is evidently interpreted as a verb-- synonym for the act of coitus-- popularized by Austin Powers......

k9dr

(Well, I looked again. Thats weird, one time "****" was expurgated, and one time not. Big Brother cannot make up his mind about the propriety of the term.)

 

One of my volunteer activities is providing bicyclists from my club to ride with handcyclists (who are disabled--many from Achilles International) at the Detroit Marathon. I call them bicycle "guides" these days after my common term bicycle "escorts" failed to reach a lot of folks by E-Mail due to spam filters. On some Yahoo forum I was lamenting the loss of radio "*****" to stupid layered touchscreen menus and that word was censored

As for van people, I have many musician, Boy Scout leader, and bicyclist friends who drive vans and minivans because they flat make sense. Pickup drivers often drive trucks to "wear" them and in that case their egos may be a bit in need of help. There are those diesel pickup guys who are into the black smoke thing, for instance (really bad for us bicyclists to be purposely choked by black diesel smoke). And the folks who build Bigfoot to cruise the mall... Of course, there are also tradesmen and farmers who drive pickups because they need them and they are more like us van folks...

I just like cars and bicycles and trucks, bought a brand new F100 pickup in 1978 as my first new vehicle, and transitioned to vans because that's what I need to carry people, bicycles, and musical gear in climate-controlled safety.

Take care,
George

 

Holy crap you're gonna confuse more than half of us with words like "expurgated"---good gravy man we're truck people, not geniuses!

I love that phrase "rounding the bases with chicks...........". Only the fibbers amongst us won't admit we did (and maybe still do) harbor thoughts of lovin' on the run. I believe I was 13 or 14 at most when the idea of a mobile bedroom would greatly and significantly enhance my attraction from the fairer gender. Thankfully The Beatles invaded the USA and reminded me all I needed to do was practice more on my guitar playing and all the girls would be chasing ME for a change!

If you like **** carpeting you're bound to love this site: Black Light Carpet | Fluorescent Carpeting Cool stuff there--now I can toss out those coach lights and dark paneling inside my *******' Wagon now?

Just to get things out of the way and make OP feel more at home: "Man---that's lame---are you stoopid or sumpin?"

We're here to mostly help---I prefer being able to type a lot of words coz that's how I roll---too much is always just enough in my book!