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Old 08-08-2014, 02:54 PM
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Boy the Fight is on, Interesting Article. Did you Know this

GM joins Ram in honest truck weighting
by Bill Cawthon • Posted on August 8th, 2014

Ram-v-Silverado-Web

Automotive News reports that General Motors has decided to leave all the parts on their trucks when establishing maximum payload ratings.

The practice of artificially inflating payload ratings by deleting components usually considered standard equipment has come to a head recently as it was revealed that Ford had omitted the jack, spare tire, center console, radio and other items to be able to make a claim that its Class 4 F-450 pickup, rated at 31,200 pounds towing capacity, was actually a Class 3 pickup and could out-tow the Ram 3500, which is rated for 30,000 pounds. The curb weight, which is used by most manufacturers, including Ram, to determine weight class, puts the F450 above the 14,000-pound limit for a Class 3 truck.

A standard F450 with all of its pieces and the maximum claimed loads would exceed the truck’s actual capacity and could create a hazard.

Later, it came to light that General Motors was omitting the rear bumper on its Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups to allow claims of higher payload capacities.

Trucks have an engineered total weight, or Gross Vehicle Weight, that is the maximum for which the truck is designed for safe operation. After subtracting everything “truck” from that weight, whatever is left is “payload” which includes driver and passengers as well as cargo. The less “truck” for a given GVW means a higher allowable payload, which translates directly into bragging rights.

It also opens the door for misleading claims and consumer confusion.

“As this story unfolded, we took a look at how the whole industry does this, and almost everybody uses base curb weight,” GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said. “We thought the best thing to do was line up with the rest of the industry to make those comparisons as easy as possible for consumers.”

GM will use the curb weight standard across its entire pickup line

Ford, which has demanded that Chrysler stop claiming “best-in-class towing” for the Ram 3500, says it has no plans to change the way it calculates its Super Duty truck weights.
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:34 PM
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very interesting.
since ford F-450 does not come with a spare tire mounted.
that is where the fuel tank is.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:51 PM
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How do those 3500 and 450 trucks do in the case of a trailer brake failure when pulling 30k lbs. I bet they beat the ambulance to the scene by at least a half hour. All 3 try to out do eachother and they all play dirty at one point or the other. Read the fine print and pay attention to asterisks.

Quote:
very interesting.
since ford F-450 does not come with a spare tire mounted.
that is where the fuel tank is.
Even the F-450 non chassis cab model that comes with the styleside bed?
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:51 PM
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The only reason I posted this was nothing to do with which is better. I posted this because like the Government you can't even trust the auto manufactures to tell the truth.
In reality if we owned a company & falsely advertised our product by being misleading we would be fined or jailed. But the auto manufactures can lye to sell their product.
Come on striping off parts to increase the load tow capacities.
Now out of no where, Dodge & GM decide to come clean, aren't they great guys.
But Ford is caught & is still going to do it.
Talk about fraud,from all of them.
After reading Marks story (Our member who was a former Ford Supervisor of Engineering Auto Trans) on here, now this I'm convinced that the Auto manufactures are part of the Government. Has to be who else can get away with this.
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:36 AM
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This is no more misleading than the processes used to calculate average MP's for an entire truck line. The ecoboost has come under fire because for obvious reasons, the ecoboost trucks with the 3.73 axles, crew cabs and 6.5' beds are getting far below the EPA rating. Well, no duh jack wagons.

All one has to do is peel back the layers, do some research, add a smidge of common sense and viola! You have the truth.

The F-150 Platinum 4x4 truck carries a much lower payload and tow rating than the same truck dressed in XL trim. The Plat is the truck that Ford wants everyone to buy to pull an RV. It looks nicer and brings in a healthier amount of $$$. Is this misleading? To varying degrees for the unsuspecting person who lives and dies by the words of a salesman.

So, an F-450 XL will carry the advertised tow rating, the KR model may not.
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
How do those 3500 and 450 trucks do in the case of a trailer brake failure when pulling 30k lbs. I bet they beat the ambulance to the scene by at least a half hour. All 3 try to out do eachother and they all play dirty at one point or the other. Read the fine print and pay attention to asterisks.

Even the F-450 non chassis cab model that comes with the styleside bed?
no idea. if we want a pickup, we buy a F-350.
a f-450 gets a utility body, or dump body.
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:56 PM
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I am pretty sure when the F-450s came out in 08' with the styleside bed they came with a tank mounted like the F-350 and a spare too. They were beefed up more than the F-350 back then, came only with the PSD and came with 19.5" wheels. Then down the road Ford neutered them and basically turned them back into an F-350 that they tweak a little to increase payload and GCWR.

Quote:
The only reason I posted this was nothing to do with which is better. I posted this because like the Government you can't even trust the auto manufactures to tell the truth.
In reality if we owned a company & falsely advertised our product by being misleading we would be fined or jailed. But the auto manufactures can lye to sell their product.
Come on striping off parts to increase the load tow capacities.
Now out of no where, Dodge & GM decide to come clean, aren't they great guys.
But Ford is caught & is still going to do it.
Talk about fraud,from all of them.
After reading Marks story (Our member who was a former Ford Supervisor of Engineering Auto Trans) on here, now this I'm convinced that the Auto manufactures are part of the Government. Has to be who else can get away with this.
It is intertwined with government just like for example the banking system. Though I don't feel the auto industry is quite as intertwined with government as banking but not far off. Government is always picking the winners and losers (lobbying don't help nothing) and it only gets worse as government gets bigger. The auto industry could have at least put up some kind of a fight to the CAFE, emissions standards and etc but they did not want to. They are on the .gov teet too much and really they will end up selling more overpriced overcomplicated vehicles that will need more repairs over time. So people will buy vehicles more often and time between redesigns will decrease. Plus to make them they will use as much outsourced (outside the US) parts to increase the profit margin.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tseekins View Post
This is no more misleading than the processes used to calculate average MP's for an entire truck line. The ecoboost has come under fire because for obvious reasons, the ecoboost trucks with the 3.73 axles, crew cabs and 6.5' beds are getting far below the EPA rating. Well, no duh jack wagons.

All one has to do is peel back the layers, do some research, add a smidge of common sense and viola! You have the truth.

The F-150 Platinum 4x4 truck carries a much lower payload and tow rating than the same truck dressed in XL trim. The Plat is the truck that Ford wants everyone to buy to pull an RV. It looks nicer and brings in a healthier amount of $$$. Is this misleading? To varying degrees for the unsuspecting person who lives and dies by the words of a salesman.

So, an F-450 XL will carry the advertised tow rating, the KR model may not.
Tim,
Gas mileage is Variable, something that changes with drivers & conditions. But LOAD CAPACITY is not a variable.
So I'm not feeling your argument here.
Again this isn't about ONLY FORD. It is about all of them.
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kermmydog View Post
Tim,
Gas mileage is Variable, something that changes with drivers & conditions. But LOAD CAPACITY is not a variable.
So I'm not feeling your argument here.
Again this isn't about ONLY FORD. It is about all of them.
The point that I was trying to make is that very many things about the auto world are misleading and proper research is important.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tseekins View Post
The point that I was trying to make is that very many things about the auto world are misleading and proper research is important.
OK Tim I understand your point, now.

But to me playing with payload figures no matter how much ir little I think falls under a safety issue. How could of you researched this payload thing before GM & RAM blew the lid open by admitting they were doing this. Then putting an F450 in a class with F350s by stripping weight to claim best in class towing over Rams 3500. The F450 is in a different class There were what Class 4 & class 3. I forgot which way they went but you get my point. For those that are interested I have seen at least two F550s with Ford Pickup beds on them. Everything looked OEM?

Why won't Ford stop doing it if the others are? That is kind of a double slap. "I'm caught, but not changing our ways". What would you do if your children told you that?
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:15 PM
 
 
 
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