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  #1  
Old 08-08-2014, 10:18 AM
Catspaw Catspaw is offline
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1963 F600 General problems for me to solve

New to this forum. I figured I'd just put the general issues/questions out there for anyone who might care to and be able to answer. I will still dd these things, but, thought some one might help point the way.

1963 F600. Paid$2k. Maybe good, maybe bad. Starts, engine runs, shifts, bed dumps, and actually goes down the road ... all pretty good. No major leaking or craziness. Here are the main issues it does have:

Bad tires (mainly up front) with Split rims. Nobody around here will touch them. So I'll be looking to find one piece wheels that use 8.25 x 20 tires. Tires themselves seem to be available here and there.

Brakes barely work. You have to stand on them. Pedal goes a long way, but, firms up and stays. Just no power assist. With that said, the other primary issue is the hose to the vent in the cab was cut. So the connection to the front of the booster is wide open. If you idle the engine and step on the brakes, it kills the engine. If you cap off the vent hole on the booster itself, it doesn't kill the engine. I'm still learning the role of each part and have to do some vacuum testing and what-not. Could be the booster, could be the check valve. Need to learn it and go from there.

Kingpins are shot. Not sure I'm up to this as I don't have any relationship with any shops or mechanics. I wouldn't know when I was missing some process or measurement or whatever. I was thinking if I did as much basic work as possible, I could have a shop do the tricky part (whatever that may be, even if it meant taking the axle off to take it to a shop.) I found a garage that would do it for $1000 - $1200 (assuming only the kingpins needed to be replaced.) I don't know if that's high/low or what. So $1200 + $2000 original price .... starts working in to the equity I would have in the truck.

So there is my situation and the things I'll be dealing with on here. Any opinions, resources, etc. would be greatly appreciated (just please don't tell me to part the thing out and try to get some of my money back.)
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:27 PM
Cazman1955 Cazman1955 is offline
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I would recommend you get a service manual either on disk or the paper back model. Also go on the internet and get catalogs from places suck as Dennis Carpenters, Mac's Auto parts, LMC and others. If you need parts, a good source is to leave a message for Bill (aka: numbers dummy), he is retired sales parts manager, (except we keep him pretty busy), and really knows his stuff. There is a lot of resources here on this website. I HIGHLY recommend using this site for research and just reading, as other people ideas are sometimes thing you many or may not have even thought about. I hope this helps you and good luck.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:56 PM
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I asked a moderator to move this thread to the LARGE TRUCK forum.
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Old 08-20-2014, 04:34 PM
Catspaw Catspaw is offline
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Thanks for the reply. I figured my truck fit in this category [being new to this site]. But, if the voice of experience is being heard right, it sounds like I could find more info on the other forum and will start posting over there.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:35 PM
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Thread moved to the Large Truck forum - there are times, and subjects, where you will get a better response here, than in the "F100 and bigger" forums.

Rims, these guys will know what to do with those.

Kingpins are tricky - not sure how the early F's were, but they can be a handful, and require pushing bronze bushings in place, and then honing them out to fit the pins. And then the clearance between the bushings and pins are something to keep an eye on as well.
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2014, 12:54 AM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Tires: The "split rim" wheel comes in several flavors. The Firstone "RH5" wheel was dangerous when new. Illustrated in the link below, they were used until the mid '70s despite many lawsuits and a well known reputation causing them to be known as "widow makers".

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...5degree004.jpg

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1386938309

Copyofwidowmaker005.jpg Photo by grm61 | Photobucket

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q.../wheels002.jpg

There are variations on those from Goodyear and other Firestone designs, some with locking rings that are safer, but IMO all are best avoided.

Locking ring wheels are safe, but you will have to find a real truck shop to deal with them. They looky like so:

http://forums.offipalsta.com/picture...ictureid=78705

http://www.tpub.com/eqopbas/12535_files/image198.jpg

Your 8.25 x 20 tires are going to be tube type and go on a locking ring type wheel.

One piece wheels will use tubless tires and will be in 19.5 or 22.5 sizes. 19.5 tires are too short for your truck. 9R22.5s work fine. Expect these to cost a bit of money.

I can look up other threads with leads on where to get them if you like.

Brakes: You will have a small master on the firewall and a hydrovac booster under the cab. The hose into the cab is a vacuum vent for the hydrovac. Something is wrong with the vacuum attacments based on what you say about the engine dying with the brakes on at idle. Reman'd boosters can be had. Check each wheel position for leaks first, and eventually lining and drum condition. Wheel cylinders, masters, boosters, linings all can be had. Some report good luck at NAPA. Drums...not so much.

Pin and bushing. Not sure how much, but it looks like a fun DIY project if you have something to hold the truck up and don't get crushed or get metal in your eyes:

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/kingpin.pdf
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  #7  
Old 08-21-2014, 06:05 AM
Catspaw Catspaw is offline
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1st, great PDF on king pins, Thanks. I'm a real documentation believer and really prefer to know as much as I can before taking something apart ( it's always that little spring loaded thingy that gets me ... like ... sproing! ... uh, oh.)

I think we've decided on which manual to get online now. Just have to purchase it.

We're doing our DD on wheels. So many variations on what's what. As per my other thread ... getting a different axle assembly, we're confident the local truck shop has no problem with the replacement wheels. Hopefully, we will find that the king pins on the replacement axle are good (or substantially better and safe to drive with than what we have.)

Napa seems to have whatever we may need for brakes. Still have to do some checking before replacing stuff. Having a new booster wouldn't make me unhappy. But, it may just be the check valve. Better to learn about and understand the system anyway before doing things to it.

We've lived too long to throw it all away now and will have substantial blocking underneath before attempting an axle change.

I appreciate this forum for making so much info available. When I get to that point with postings, I will post a pic or two. It's always nice to see exactly what people are talking about when I'm reading other threads.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:58 AM
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One more thing to say about yours wheels, and to consider if you try to do a front axle swap. For some reason (seems crazy to me), during the 1963/64 model years on F-600s Ford sourced wheel end components that were hub piloted. In other model years before and after on F-600s having the 6 x 8.75" pattern they sourced stud piloted components. No safe hub piloted 6 x 8.75" wheels will be found to replace your widow makers shy of having them custom made. If you stay with your stock axle and components we've discussed previously the option of converting the hubs from hub piloted to stud piloted specs. This would allow use of any readily available tubeless 22.5" or tube type 20" having Goodyear style locking rings. If you swap the whole axle it's something to keep in mind to allow use of the same wheels at any location on the truck. Here's an old discussion. Stu

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10...ck-w-pics.html
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:01 PM
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There is more than one king pin type, as it depends on the weight of the front axle. Post the AXLE code stamped on the Warranty Plate.

And...there is more than one front and rear brake size for these trucks. Finding out which size brakes it has .. will entail pulling the drums to take a look-see.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:10 PM
Catspaw Catspaw is offline
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Thanks for the heads up. However, we are looking at a different axle to swap in. So, those may be moot points. We will have to see if the other axle is in useable shape first.
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Old 09-06-2014, 06:28 PM
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Catspaw,

I have not changed kin pins since the early 70s so I going by old memory.

I am assuming that you have already stripped things down to bare spindles.

Before getting into anything deep, I would recommend that you find two sets of king pins that come in kit form and that include nylon bushings.

Unless the locks were improperly installed or have come loose, your axle will likely be okay. The same goes for your spindles unless the bushings are worn right through. If the axle is worn on the ID, it will require honing and bushing or building up and honing. If the spindle bushings are the worn through, the same applies to them. I would guess that they would both be okay.

If memory serves me, the top of the spindle will have a gasket and cap that is bolted on. I've seen two and three bolt versions.

The bottom of the spindle likely has something like a frost plug that is held in place by a snap ring.

There are probably two king pin lock pins in each side of the axle. They will have a wedge shape flat ground into one side. One is often shorter than the other. These lock pins are driven in with a hammer and retain the king pin in position and prevent it from turning in the axle. Some after-market lock pins can have a nut and washer to help hold them in place.

If the lock pins were properly installed, one will be driven in from the front and one will be driven in from the rear. The rub here is that you have to figure out which one was driven in from which direction. They must be driven out from the tapered ends.

Once you have removed the locks, caps, etc. you can try to drive out the king pin. I would drive it from the top down. Some rust remover/lubricant might help. If there is too much resistance, a puller/press of some sort can be used.

Once the king pin is removed, note the position of the king pin bearing (bottom of axle) and any shims, seals, etc. Then remove the spindles.

Once the spindles are removed (obviously don't mix them up), check the bushings to be sure that they are not worn through ANYWHERE. If all looks okay, drive or press out the bushings. If you are lucky, they could already have nylon bushings in place. If so, they will just push out. Believe me, if equipped with nylon bushings, the king pins will wear out long before the bushings do.

Clean everything.

If you use metal bushings, they have to be lined up with the grease fitting passages. There is no alignment necessary for any of the nylon bushings that I have worked with.

Metal bushings will likely heed to be reamed or honed. Nylon ones will not.

Once everything is ready, assemble in reverse order. Make sure that the more open end of the bearing is facing down. I like to install any shims below the bearing.

When installing the king pin, make certain that it is the right way up and turned so that the lock pins can be driven into its slots. Remember that one lock pin on each side goes in from the front ant the other goes in from the back. Hammer them home so that nothing moves or comes loose. If the locks have securing nuts and washers, install them now.

Then install any caps, seals, locks etc.

Like I said, it has been a lot of years, but I think that should do it.

As for your brakes, I cannot help. I purposely put hydraulic heavy truck brakes and vacuum trailer brakes out of my mind years ago. Air was much more user friend.

Good luck with our project.

Green Gem
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Old 09-06-2014, 06:28 PM
 
 
 
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