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Dealer image shows 2008-2011 F350 4x4 SRW being the same.
My local dealer has my truck and is doing an alignment. It's never been done in 85000 miles. They are replacing the steering box and recommended an alignment. Since, it had never been done, I decided to do it.
After checking, he says they need me to buy a shim kit in order to get the alignment into specs. The truck is completely stock. Says the shim kit is $80 more PLUS installation.
He sent me a pic of the current alignment:
FRONT
CAMBER: L 0.4 R 0.2 * in the green range
CASTER: L 4.1 R 3.9 * both in red as alignment range is up to 3.9 deg
TOE: L 0.17 R 0.19 * left is green and right is red as range is up to .18 deg
All values positive.
Is already charging me $180 for the alignment which I think is ridiculous. Why would a stock engine need a shim kit to align it?
I understand alignment specs so I know what it all means. I don't understand how a stock truck would need a shim kit to get it aligned.
If they need to compensate for worn suspension, or bushings/ball joints of any kind, why wouldn't they repair those? Would fix the alignment issue and restore the truck to its proper condition.
so for an f-350 its 180+80 at a dealer...I dont see that as expensive since a barebone alignment on a car at any major non oem repair shop is around 89 bucks plus the cost of end rods which seem to be a common replace item....benifet of what you are doing is that the folks you are dealing with are ford trained....if they need a shim kit...they would know...can you have what remains from the kit? maybe you can sell the extra shims?
If by "shims" they mean the alignment bushings, then other than $80 being rip-off pricing they're necessary because the original bushings aren't adjustable. As far as alignment adjustments, caster and camber are set by the upper ball joint bushing, unless you want to get into radius arm or spring adjustments.
I don't have the '09 specs right here, but on my '07 with the same front axle the caster spec is 3.3*+/-1.2*, so eh, let that ride, and have them fix the toe, a little positive caster never hurt anyone if it still steers good. If you have one of the special front end packages with heavier springs, it's 2.6*+/-1.3*.
Fact #1. More mis-alignments are the result of a shop selling/performing a alignment that isn't needed.
FACT #2. Next time your at a alignment shop ask how often they re-calibrate their equipment...real truth is, they don't ever, when in fact depending what type it should be done every week to once each month.
Fact #3. Most alignments are performed by people who aren't qualified.
Fact #4. I hit a pot hole, need to get the alignment done...when the answer to that would be never. Vehicle manufacturers DO NOT(in case you didn't read it right) DO NOT make vehicles that just go out of alignment, even when hitting a pot hole...make that 5 pot holes is succession. It takes severely worn or damaged suspension or steering linkage parts, a suspension sag/ride height or the ever more present, the last guy to touch it problem.
Your instincts are correct.
I specialized in and owned a specialty vibration/alignment business for many years. The bulk of my business was repeat and those problems that arose from substandard shops.
My original post has the specs in my comments. Specs say up to 3.9 deg positive caster is good but 4.0 is out of spec.
The service writer initially said the shims were needed to get the camber into spec but they clearly show that the camber is IN spec. So, he was wrong. He also admitted (on the follow-up call) that I knew more about alignments that he does. I'm a road racer and do my own alignment adjustments on my racecar.
He didn't say exactly what they were trying to shim and it sounds like he didn't know.
After giving me time to look at the "before" alignment settings, he did call back and told me it was done. I was like, "oh, ok, so we did we do about the shims?"
He said they went ahead and aligned it best they could without the shim kit.
He sent me another picture of the screen showing the "after" settings.
"AFTER" FRONT
CAMBER: L +0.5 R +0.2 * both in the green range
CASTER: L +4.0 R +4.0 * both in red as alignment range is up to 3.9 deg
TOE: L +0.08 R +0.07 * both in the green as toe variance is -0.08 to +0.18 deg
So, this tells me that the caster, not the camber needed the shims to get into alignment which makes more sense to me. My 65 Mustang took shims to align it and I'm pretty sure they were for caster. As a road racer, the positive camber makes me cringe so I'll just have to take it slow through the turns. But we run as much positive caster as possible as long as both sides are the same on Mustangs (in the 4-7 deg range).
So, from before to after, the camber and caster are virtually the same, and the toe has been corrected by about a tenth.
It doesn't seem right that I should have to pay for the alignment at all but he says the Ford extended service plan doesn't cover the alignment with a steering box replacement. Does that sound right to you guys?
Last edited by Mystic_Cobra; 08-07-2014 at 01:56 PM.
Reason: clarity
These are the adjustable bushings. Just put them on my Ranger and they work wonders. I have been given the alignment runaround which is why I bought these and did my own alignment using a $10 protractor from sears and a few string line levels.
These bushings let you adjust castor and camber independently (center hex turns inside the outer hex) where as the stock bushings can only do camber and castor in relation to one another.
If you choose to do it yourself, take it to a shop with the laser alignment machine and just ask them for a printout of where your alignment is and you can then adjust it base upon the readout. My shop will set the toe for me while it is on the laser machine since it is more accurate than a tape measure.
There was nothing wrong with the original specs...you wouldn't have any handling or tire wear issues with those readings. And no, I would've played hard ball and refused to pay it.
I would be fairly certain you had to deal with a service writer, not only do they not know enough about what's happening but I would be very suspect of the person performing the so called alignment.
I would be fairly certain you had to deal with a service writer, not only do they not know enough about what's happening but I would be very suspect of the person performing the so called alignment.
So, it sounds like you are suggesting that neither one of them is qualified for their job?
Fact #1. More mis-alignments are the result of a shop selling/performing a alignment that isn't needed.
FACT #2. Next time your at a alignment shop ask how often they re-calibrate their equipment...real truth is, they don't ever, when in fact depending what type it should be done every week to once each month.
Fact #3. Most alignments are performed by people who aren't qualified.
Fact #4. I hit a pot hole, need to get the alignment done...when the answer to that would be never. Vehicle manufacturers DO NOT(in case you didn't read it right) DO NOT make vehicles that just go out of alignment, even when hitting a pot hole...make that 5 pot holes is succession. It takes severely worn or damaged suspension or steering linkage parts, a suspension sag/ride height or the ever more present, the last guy to touch it problem.
Your instincts are correct.
I specialized in and owned a specialty vibration/alignment business for many years. The bulk of my business was repeat and those problems that arose from substandard shops.
Fact #1. More mis-alignments are the result of a shop selling/performing a alignment that isn't needed.
FACT #2. Next time your at a alignment shop ask how often they re-calibrate their equipment...real truth is, they don't ever, when in fact depending what type it should be done every week to once each month.
Fact #3. Most alignments are performed by people who aren't qualified.
Fact #4. I hit a pot hole, need to get the alignment done...when the answer to that would be never. Vehicle manufacturers DO NOT(in case you didn't read it right) DO NOT make vehicles that just go out of alignment, even when hitting a pot hole...make that 5 pot holes is succession. It takes severely worn or damaged suspension or steering linkage parts, a suspension sag/ride height or the ever more present, the last guy to touch it problem.
Your instincts are correct.
I specialized in and owned a specialty vibration/alignment business for many years. The bulk of my business was repeat and those problems that arose from substandard shops.
He ain't lying! With the way the SuperDuty suspension and axles have all the degrees of caster and camber bent into the components, unless you have worn parts, leave it alone. The toe-in is the most important adjustment on these trucks. I give mine 1/8" toe by letting it sit on the ground and measuring with two, wooden yardsticks, zip tied together (where they will slide in and out). visual inspect the gap between the sticks and the inner side of the tires, forward and after the axle. Drives great, wears tires like it should, and have not spent a dime.
08-07-2014, 08:59 AM
But we run as much positive caster as possible as long as both sides are the same on Mustangs (in the 4-7 deg range). 
