The firing order is different between a 460 and a 351. IMO, it would be better to just leave the stock ECU in there at that point.

The 302 block seems to be hit or miss but it certainly is not stout enough to justify dumping a bunch of money into a stroker using the production 302 block. Just my opinion.

I picked up my blower setup from a buddy who cracked his block with it. Bummer for him, great deal for me.

 

I remember there being a bunch of talk about strength differences that varied with where the block was cast. Worth some googling to someone looking for a buildable engine.

 

Minor issue. If you're leaving speed density then all you need to do is use correct firing order for 351, and the injectors batch fire so that doesn't get altered. It's literally plug in the ecu and fire it up.
With a mass air ecu, you would need to swap 4 injector plugs to correct spot, but I didn't have issues doing that when I put a 460 into a foxbody.

My suggestion was only to get the guy up and going without needing to spend the money on tuning software right off the bat. And with stock ecu you're limited to what the 19lb injectors can do, along with the 50-100 extra CID, it may run out of adjustment. Where as a stout 351-427 can use all that a 460ecu can trim down with 24lb injectors.

Lots of ways to do it for sure.

 

spoken like a true armchair quarterback who has never fooled with efi engines too deeply. The PCM has only so much leeway in it's parameters and can only do what its been pre programmed to do within a given window. You cannot simply drop a hogged out set of heads , higher compression pistons and a big cam on a efi engine and have it magically tune itself to that new setup, don't work that way. I have fooled with efi ,fords, gms and dodges and it can be a tunin nightmare to get them workin right once you go much past bolt ons with the mods, thats why nitrous is the best way to go IMO for them. Blowers and turbos get everyone geeked out oohin and ahhin but they are a huge PITA to keep the air fuel ratio in line through the rpm band. Seen so many pig rich at idle only to go lean and cook a motor at WOT. Thats why you see so many used blower/turbo setups for sale, someone elses headache/tunin nightmare.
I like the driveability of a stock motor, don't like surges when I'm cruisin down the road, or the up and down idle, and a myriad of other driveability problems you have when the tune isn't dead nuts right. with nitrous you just back off the base timin per the hp of the shot, make sure your ignition system is up to the task and set up right for nitrous (no plat plugs, close the gap a bit) and the power is there when you want. your vehicle acts nice and stock, still gets the MPG, all the power accesories work as they should. Only way to go IMO for most EFi applications except for a very few makes and models in the hands of a few tuners who can set them up properly. A lot of these stories on the internet are just that and when seen in real life these highly modified efi vehicles always got quirks and don't run like they should. I wish you thebest of luck if you decide to go with a blower or serious engine mods, post the build up and results.

 

Funny, I have no problem keeping the A/F in line on my setup.

What you are talking about may have been true back when the FMU and turning the dizzy was the only way to "tune" a forced induction car. There really wasn't much fine tuning to be done on something like that. It may also be the case when somebody figures that they can simply purchase some 60lb injectors and a MAF calibrated for 60lb injectors to cover it. That is a silly way to put a larger MAF and injectors on a vehicle. You lose resolution where you need it, down low. It is pretty easy to dial in the fueling and spark with BinaryEditor, CalEdit, HP Tuners, SCT Pro Racer, etc if you know what you are doing. If you know the mass of the air going into the motor it is pretty easy to know the mass of fuel required for combustion.

It all boils down to who tunes it.

For what you spend on a nitrous setup with the ignition controller, solenoids, bottle, lines, blow-down tube, heater, etc you can have a nice forced induction setup. With forced induction I never have to worry about filling a bottle. I also don't have to horse around with jetting, hope a fuel jet doesn't get plugged, etc.

A bottle of nitrous at $45-$50 per bottle gets awfully spendy. I know a few people who went with nitrous and they all say that for the cost of the gas they could have had a really nice blower or turbo.

Don't forget a forced induction vehicle is ready to go whenever you put your foot down. You don't have to open the bottle or make sure you have gas.

 

I know that the early 302 blocks are stronger. The Mexican block was also pretty stout IIRC. The early blocks require machining for roller cams and they are getting harder to find.

 

anyone can play tuner but not everyone can properly tune a modified car. I have yet to see one aftermarket blower or turbo on a street driven efi vehicle that I would call properly tuned in or with mild factory like street manners like they should be and are advertised to be. not too mention all the hassles of belt slippage, boost leaks, etc etc etc You want to talk about a clogged fuel jet on a nitrous setup, same thing can be said for a lean A/F at wot with a boosted setup.

You don't need a bottle heater, you don't need a lot of the add ons they try to sell you for a simple 75-200 hp nitrous setup. If you spend more then $1000-1500 you bought stuff you really didn't need. You can have a multi stage setup for less then that for what the OP wants (350-400 hp). whats a proper blower or turbo setup cost with the required stand alone efi setup and related components he'll need to make it work on this truck? Probably spend a easy $8-10k for what this guy wants to do, probably even more to be honest. Thats just for the blower/turbo,efi management etc Haven't even tore into the engine yet or built the trans yet. After all this then there is still the tunin gamble, maybe he'll get the unicorn tuner who nails it or more then likely he'll get the pretender tuner who knows the basics but really can't dial them in like they should be when highly modified.

Like i said a few popular vehicles "might" have some luck with it like mustangs, camaros, vettes etc, but we're not talkin about those here on this post. we're talkin a 92-96 non lightening f 150, how many on this forum have a street driven wild stroker, head and cam combos or boosted while tryin to keep the factory intake and efi electronics in one of these trucks? *crickets chirpin* Please show me a few of these success stories. I have built quite a few street driven efi machines in my time and all usually went well until I wanted to dig into the motor, then all I heard was excuses from the tuners, each one promised to fix what the other guy botched and ultimately none could tune it to where it should have been. Somethin as simple as a cam swap had them all scratchin their heads, this was in Md in a area with drag strips and tuners all over and also in S Fl where there is a tuner shop on every corner just about. I saw the same with countless buddies who tried the same, none were like the stories we read about in magazines or online who made it all sound so simple. I wish i was in Mn so I could critique yer blower stang, it no doubt has it's quirks. They always do.

this guy wants a 350-400 hp street truck, I could stand on my head and put that together with a mild 351w and a shot and do it without all the nightmares and hassles of blowers, stroker motors, turbos and other money wasters. Anyone who says tunin the wild stroker motor, big cam, wild head, boosted applications etc is easy is kiddin themselves and either has very DEEP pockets and has others do it for them or is simply lyin IMO and especially if they are tryin to do it with factory electronics. Have better luck tryin to catch a fart in a windstorm with a mason jar.

and just so ya know i am meanin all this in a light hearted bench racin session type of post, not tryin to start a whizzin match or pick on anyone.

 

Is this stuff that allows DIY custom mapping in a stock computer?

I've done a fair amount with aftermarket EFI systems but never done much with stock computers.

 

You're a tough one to please captain... I think my wife got bumped to second place.
You need to start hanging out with some better "tuners" because they are giving the real guys a bad rap.
I won't even try to reply to the rest of your post because it's no use I don't think.

Anyway.... When the op is ready to build a stout engine, hopefully he will come back and ask some more questions.

 

Arm chair my ***. I have probably built more vehicles than you have driven.

Maybe you should lay off the laughing gas

 

Well, nobody addressed the easy way to do this; displacement.

Find a same year 460 equipped F250, transplant the entire powertrain, harness and ECU, then add a Banks PowerPack system. When the engine is being rebuilt for the transplant, add an ECU-friendly cam.

Stock idle, no fancy unobtaium parts, 350+ horses and probably close to 500 ft-lbs of torque. Sounds like fun in a little half-ton.

Pricey but very reliable. Remember, there is no replacement for displacement.

Ray

 

The 460 would be the easiest way to gain the displacement but the op is going against small blocks.

This is simple 302 bored stroked to 347 afr heads cam supercharger and bottle feed it.

 

If you're building a stroked 302, you'd be crazy not to build a stroked 351... As we said, stronger block and more potential right off the bat.
A 460 will add more weight than I prefer. I've gone that route before and it was fun, but is rather stick with a smallblock.

 

Sure is nice not to have the clearance issues in a truck that you do with a Mustang!

Sent from my Telegraph using IB AutoGroup

 

I currently have a 351 in my 94 mustang... Fits great and you use all of the 5liter accessories. Not sure if your supercharger has the extra bolt hole, but if your bracketry bolts to the head only like the factory stuff, you can bolt it onto the 351 with no issues.
I've also put an efi 460 into a fox body and a dohc 4.6. And the dohc is wider than a 460. It was shoehorned in there. My 67 mustang has a 390 in it, that's a tight squeeze as well.

Trucks are a dream to work on. The half ton I built with a 460 had twin turbo and accel6 efi. Lots of fun there, and still room to work.