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Old 07-27-2014, 10:24 AM
joesluckyseven joesluckyseven is offline
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Bolt-on power

Hello folks.

I am looking for some input on performance and mpg improvements in my 91 F-250 with 460 and E4OD.

I am interested primarily in low-end torque for the purpose of towing my boat and trailers around the mountains.

I am considering Hedman headers, x-pipe, etc for exhaust. 2 1/2 inches sound right?
I am also considering a high performance air intake/filter combo from K&N or Banks.
I have done some research on computer upgrades from companies like Hypertech or Jet. Are the benefits of a chip or programmer worth it?
I have also heard good things about switching to an HEI distributor as far as freed up power and MPG improvements.
When I come back later to do a rebuild, I will invest in camshaft, porting, etc. But I don't need a rebuild right now (only 44,000 miles) so I'm interested in best bang-for-the-buck, bolt-on help.
I'm not looking to race my truck, lol, I just want what towing and efficiency help I can get.
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:26 AM
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First off throw EVERYTHING out the window for MPGs.
The ONLY way to get better fuel milage is driving habits, NOTHING else will change that
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:57 AM
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_Brad View Post
First off throw EVERYTHING out the window for MPGs.
The ONLY way to get better fuel milage is driving habits, NOTHING else will change that
X2^ MPG and a 460 is not compatible in the same sentence However, you can get 10 or so if you drive it right when not using the truck for work.

Having said that, long tube headers, a good exhaust, and a free breathing intake will make some difference.
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Old 07-27-2014, 01:01 PM
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Forget the advertising claims… nothing will change enough to pay for itself in a reasonable time.

I had a 454 crew cab dually that was switched to an Edelbrock 'system' back in the early 80's… cam, intake, carb, dizzy, headers all in one package. We went from 5.5 mpg to 5 mpg after spending $1200.00.

The headers will make the engine more 'efficient' but I doubt you'll see any appreciable mileage gains. An HEI unit is ez to install but, again, you won't see any gains in mileage.

Installing an aux. two speed O/D trans, 3.55 gears and taller tires will help keep your revs down… that would help.

Keeping the truck tuned, correct air pressure in the tires and keeping your speed down will do more than spending lots of $$$ on fresh parts.
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Old 07-27-2014, 01:13 PM
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Long tube headers, bump the timing to 13*, and keep everything maintained well, is about all you can do without opening up the engine.
The other stuff is pretty much gimmicks that separate you from your dollars.
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  #7  
Old 07-28-2014, 09:11 AM
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Despite advertisement claims..

I've found the best way to improve your MPG is by replacing worn out stock parts that actually effect MPG, for example, my fan clutch locked up and I was losing a couple MPGs. I replaced the clutch and my mileage improved. I could have done an electric fan swap and freed up more power and potentially mileage, but I didn't. A free flowing intake improved my acceleration, but not power or mileage. Long tube headers gave me a noticeable power increase, however.

Long story short, replace what you know needs replaced. Spark plugs are a big one for example. With a 460, you'll want to try to restore it to it's stock condition with new parts to get the best mileage. If you're wanting power, depending on what you do and how you do it, there's always a possibility that you'll lose mileage.

Also, just a little suggestion. Don't waste your money on a chip claiming a noticeable power increase or mileage. I've seen many of these in person and have personally tested them and saw absolutely no results. As for diesel rigs, I have seen chips that actually do provide gains. But personally, I've never seen an improvement by using a chip on a gas rig.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesluckyseven View Post
I am interested primarily in low-end torque for the purpose of towing my boat and trailers around the mountains.

I am considering Hedman headers, x-pipe, etc for exhaust. 2 1/2 inches sound right?
Forget the X-pipe it won't fit on most trucks, longtube headers and a single 3" will produce the most low rpm torque.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joesluckyseven View Post
I am also considering a high performance air intake/filter combo from K&N or Banks.
Waste of money, just remove the air horns if they are still present and install a good quality filter in the stock airbox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joesluckyseven View Post
I have done some research on computer upgrades from companies like Hypertech or Jet. Are the benefits of a chip or programmer worth it?
Not on this vintage motor you can get the same gains by simply advancing timing at the distributor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joesluckyseven View Post
I have also heard good things about switching to an HEI distributor as far as freed up power and MPG improvements.
That is complete nonsense there are no performance gains available at the distributor, period.
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2014, 09:38 AM
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echo the mpg and performance on a 460 do not go together.
You get one or the other but not both. Performance is easier to get than mpg.
Personally on my 460 I'm looking to put back the stock air assembly, I think they do a better job than aftermarkets for my applications. Not a fan of the K$N unless you're running a strip car.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:48 PM
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Paul, not trying to hijack, but what make of long-tube headers should I be looking at? L&L no longer makes them for our trucks. Guy at JBG's said a set of Mad Dogs - 460 Fenderwell Exit/ EFI

I was gonna have an X-pipe made to fit or maybe an H-pipe. Also have to remove the horns. As far as 3" exhaust, it that from headers back? I was going to use a hi-flow cat and bullet muffler. I thought about true duals with 2 high-flow cats and bullet mufflers(hi-flow). I am going to sell my K&N set up and go back to stock air box with a good filter too. Thanks man!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
Forget the X-pipe it won't fit on most trucks, longtube headers and a single 3" will produce the most low rpm torque.

Waste of money, just remove the air horns if they are still present and install a good quality filter in the stock airbox.

Not on this vintage motor you can get the same gains by simply advancing timing at the distributor.

That is complete nonsense there are no performance gains available at the distributor, period.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:13 PM
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Not trying to hijack, can you explain what you did orwhere you got it to have a free flowing intake? Thanks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995F150XLT4x4 View Post
Despite advertisement claims..

I've found the best way to improve your MPG is by replacing worn out stock parts that actually effect MPG, for example, my fan clutch locked up and I was losing a couple MPGs. I replaced the clutch and my mileage improved. I could have done an electric fan swap and freed up more power and potentially mileage, but I didn't. A free flowing intake improved my acceleration, but not power or mileage. Long tube headers gave me a noticeable power increase, however.

Long story short, replace what you know needs replaced. Spark plugs are a big one for example. With a 460, you'll want to try to restore it to it's stock condition with new parts to get the best mileage. If you're wanting power, depending on what you do and how you do it, there's always a possibility that you'll lose mileage.

Also, just a little suggestion. Don't waste your money on a chip claiming a noticeable power increase or mileage. I've seen many of these in person and have personally tested them and saw absolutely no results. As for diesel rigs, I have seen chips that actually do provide gains. But personally, I've never seen an improvement by using a chip on a gas rig.
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:30 PM
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Sure, it's quite simple.

I removed the snorkel that runs from near the top of the radiator (where the air is taken in) to the bottom of the airbox, and removed the airbox/filter itself. Then all you should be left with are the two long rubber tubes coming from the throttle body (or one long rubber tube if you have MAF rather than MAP)

My truck does not have the mass airflow sensor so I have two tubes. What I did was put a 45 degree aluminum elbow coming from the tube closest to the firewall, and a straight aluminum pipe exiting the tube closest to the front of the truck. Then on the end of each pipe I put a K&N cone filter. Optionally, you could run two short straight lengths of pipe out of each tube, and buy a dual inlet K&N filter. (Or whatever brand you prefer). If you DO have a Mass airflow sensor, you could probably get away with just removing the airbox and add one short pipe to the end of the tube with a cone filter on it. Though I'm not sure if this would effect the sensor as personally I dont have one. Also, as for the crankcase breather tube that runs from the top of the motor to the airbox, just remove the tube and put a crankcase breather filter on it. I use a 10 dollar edelbrock one because it's all my auto parts store had.

I attached a picture of the setup so you can get a better understanding. Doing it this way saves you a lot of money instead of buying the official K&N plastic tube specifically for our trucks, though I still decided to use K&N filters. You can get some cone filters on ebay for around 10 bucks each and get the same results. I did it for ACCELERATION IMPROVEMENT, NOT HORSEPOWER.

Enjoy!
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:57 PM
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Awesome! Are those your stock tubes? I have a 460 twin tubes also. Did your truck have the air horns? I just got the BBK throttle body and I really like what you did. I like the crankcase breather idea also. Are those tubes the same size as on a 460? Thanks for the info, really appreciate it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995F150XLT4x4 View Post
Sure, it's quite simple.

I removed the snorkel that runs from near the top of the radiator (where the air is taken in) to the bottom of the airbox, and removed the airbox/filter itself. Then all you should be left with are the two long rubber tubes coming from the throttle body (or one long rubber tube if you have MAF rather than MAP)

My truck does not have the mass airflow sensor so I have two tubes. What I did was put a 45 degree aluminum elbow coming from the tube closest to the firewall, and a straight aluminum pipe exiting the tube closest to the front of the truck. Then on the end of each pipe I put a K&N cone filter. Optionally, you could run two short straight lengths of pipe out of each tube, and buy a dual inlet K&N filter. (Or whatever brand you prefer). If you DO have a Mass airflow sensor, you could probably get away with just removing the airbox and add one short pipe to the end of the tube with a cone filter on it. Though I'm not sure if this would effect the sensor as personally I dont have one. Also, as for the crankcase breather tube that runs from the top of the motor to the airbox, just remove the tube and put a crankcase breather filter on it. I use a 10 dollar edelbrock one because it's all my auto parts store had.

I attached a picture of the setup so you can get a better understanding. Doing it this way saves you a lot of money instead of buying the official K&N plastic tube specifically for our trucks, though I still decided to use K&N filters. You can get some cone filters on ebay for around 10 bucks each and get the same results. I did it for ACCELERATION IMPROVEMENT, NOT HORSEPOWER.

Enjoy!
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:13 AM
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No problem

Yes, they are the stock tubes. Unsure exactly as to what you mean by "air horns", but all I had to remove in order to do this was:

snorkel to airbox
airbox and filter
crankcase breather tube
---------------------------

I want to say there isn't a difference in the tube length, but I can't say for sure. If you had issues with clearance I'm sure you could find a way around it. If there is a difference in tube length, it can't be too significant.

Oh, and from personal experience, nice choice on the BBK throttle body. A close friend of mine has a 351w and he got some VERY decent power gains from adding a Edelbrock performer upper intake manifold, BBK throttle body, upgraded injectors, an intake setup similar to mine, and a distributor timing advance. He had good results with all of these things working hand in hand. Unsure of what kind of gains you'll get with only an upgraded throttle body, as the stock intake manifold might hold it back, you know? Just my two cents.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995F150XLT4x4 View Post
Sure, it's quite simple.

I removed the snorkel that runs from near the top of the radiator (where the air is taken in) to the bottom of the airbox, and removed the airbox/filter itself. Then all you should be left with are the two long rubber tubes coming from the throttle body (or one long rubber tube if you have MAF rather than MAP)

My truck does not have the mass airflow sensor so I have two tubes. What I did was put a 45 degree aluminum elbow coming from the tube closest to the firewall, and a straight aluminum pipe exiting the tube closest to the front of the truck. Then on the end of each pipe I put a K&N cone filter. Optionally, you could run two short straight lengths of pipe out of each tube, and buy a dual inlet K&N filter. (Or whatever brand you prefer). If you DO have a Mass airflow sensor, you could probably get away with just removing the airbox and add one short pipe to the end of the tube with a cone filter on it. Though I'm not sure if this would effect the sensor as personally I dont have one. Also, as for the crankcase breather tube that runs from the top of the motor to the airbox, just remove the tube and put a crankcase breather filter on it. I use a 10 dollar edelbrock one because it's all my auto parts store had.

I attached a picture of the setup so you can get a better understanding. Doing it this way saves you a lot of money instead of buying the official K&N plastic tube specifically for our trucks, though I still decided to use K&N filters. You can get some cone filters on ebay for around 10 bucks each and get the same results. I did it for ACCELERATION IMPROVEMENT, NOT HORSEPOWER.

Enjoy!
Click the image to open in full size.
That is a 5.8L motor not the 7.5L Right.??? 460 has air horns
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:30 AM
 
 
 
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