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  #1  
Old 07-15-2014, 10:29 PM
Notmeofficer Notmeofficer is offline
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300 ci six in an f600

I still have my 79 f600 4 x 4 fire truck sitting in resto stage.. frame and axles have been done
It originally had a 370 in it..with a clark 285v... but I let that go.. as I considered a diesel

However

Im interested in what it would take to put a 300 six back in...
I run into them all the time (but not f600 versions,,,, I wish)

Questions

What front engine adapter did the 300 take and is this a rare piece?

,,I understand the forged crank version would be the one to get.,, that came in f600s.. good luck on scoring the combo with the motor mount and forged crank

This truck will be a parade truck.. and Ive always like 300 s
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2014, 05:28 AM
GJCAT GJCAT is offline
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F-600 I-6

I can tell you that the F-600 version has a plate that bolts to the front of the motor and a bellhousing that has mounts cast into it like the larger engines. These would be the unique parts that I don` think would be easy to find. I found one in a 67 F-600 last yr that I could buy at my local truck yard complete waterpump to tranny. I don`t know if its still there as they were scrapping a lot of old trucks and the guy who owned the yard just passed away last week.
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2014, 06:28 AM
Notmeofficer Notmeofficer is offline
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Thank you... I will let this post continue and see if anyone can direct me to one
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:18 AM
80broncoman 80broncoman is offline
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IIRC those bellhousings also contained the usual (for a F-600)13 inch clutch. and the bak of the bell has a whatever usually fits a NP435 or Clark trans.

Your location would help OP.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:33 AM
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1979 F600 300 I-6

7505 Bell Housing listed in Text, Section 75, page 1. Notice (since you have the parts catalog) that 1979 uses a different bell housing than 1973/78 (actually 1965/78).

Left: 1973/79 Front & 1973/78 Rear / Right lower: 1979 Rear.
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  #6  
Old 07-16-2014, 12:06 PM
Notmeofficer Notmeofficer is offline
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I have the manual.. but I want the parts man... who knows it backwards and forwards...

Thanks Bill

Im in Redding California

Home of Lake Shasta and dope growers... one is good one is bad..
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2014, 08:26 PM
dmanlyr dmanlyr is offline
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If it is just going to be a parade truck, why not just go out and get a early 80 F100/150 with the six/automatic, and swap the whole thing in? Yes you will have to make side mounts and fab up a cross member.... If you get the whole truck you will have all the small parts, radiator, etc.

You could even swap in a older 240 or ?

You don't need the heavy duty six as well if this is just a parade truck. Hauling some people at 1-3 mph will not take much, and it will not be loaded to the parade.. right? Not going to be a hauler!

No sense dealing with a manual for a parade truck, nothing worse than riding the clutch the entire time! And I speak from experience there.

Just my thoughts

David
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2014, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanlyr View Post
If it is just going to be a parade truck, why not just go out and get a early 80 F100/150 with the six/automatic, and swap the whole thing in? Yes you will have to make side mounts and fab up a cross member.... If you get the whole truck you will have all the small parts, radiator, etc.

You could even swap in a older 240 or ?

You don't need the heavy duty six as well if this is just a parade truck. Hauling some people at 1-3 mph will not take much, and it will not be loaded to the parade.. right? Not going to be a hauler!

No sense dealing with a manual for a parade truck, nothing worse than riding the clutch the entire time! And I speak from experience there.

Just my thoughts

David
You forgot the totally new driveshaft, how to install a transmission mounted parking brake, the fan will now probably be below the radiator because the mediums often have a higher fan centerline (don't know about the Ford, though) and the truck won't drive at parade speeds because first gear isn't low enough.
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:12 PM
dmanlyr dmanlyr is offline
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Well I assumed that certain changes would have to be made to the driveline, as well as many other small details. Didn't forget, just did not post a complete list. I also did not list all of the wiring changes, you did not either, did you forget? How about the speedo hookup? Ford has a multitude of different types and sizes in the cables. I didn't see that mentioned either.

I was just throwing out quick ideas here, thinking outside the box so to speak, maybe passing along the idea that there might be a different path than trying to find difficult to find parts.... didn't want to get too far into the weeds, but....

I mentioned the mount changes, I didn't add that the rear cross member and mount towers might be reusable with adaptation from the donor truck, so I will now get a little more detailed. Perhaps the entire front mount cross member could be swapped in, with some modification from the donor truck, does not have to be that sturdy as this is a parade truck, not a hauler. Just has to be strong enough to move a unloaded truck / very lightly loaded truck. As well without a clutch, power take up will be much more smoother, especially on hills. Commercial truck users have found this to be the case with the newer automated and fully automatic transmissions in the new trucks, class 5-8 and they are moving a load! Pretty much stopped ham fisted drivers from breaking ujoints when in LL and fully loaded.

Since the OP no longer has the original transmission, driveshaft changes will probably be required anyways depending upon what he comes up with for a transmission, even if it is a manual. Hopefully a complete new driveshaft will not be required, depending upon the wheelbase, it may have a two, or three piece driveshaft, so only the forward section will need a different yoke. A complete rebalance may be required, again dependent upon how the fast the truck needs to go to get to the parade. Of course driveshaft changes may only be limited to the short shaft between the transfer case and the transmission, I don't know for sure as I do not have the exact specs in front of me.

If this is a parade truck, then no reason to install the trans parking brake, the trans park position will be fine. Heck, the truck may have air brakes for all I know, and in that case it may have spring parking brakes and never had a trans parking brake like my air braked C600.

As to the low speed, again that is why there is a torque converter, with a infinite low speed capability. First gear indeed will be high, but again this is a parade truck and you really do not need the super low first as one does not have to get a load moving. If this truck is geared like every other older gas Ford medium out there, a single speed rear end will have a low enough ratio as it is. I seriously doubt it has anything less than about a 6.5 to one, but I can't tell you for sure, I do not have the complete truck specs to work with.

You would be correct if this truck had a high first gear with a manual. The minimum road speed would be too high with a roughly 3:1 first gear ratio, but the automatic makes that whole issue go away quite nicely.

But then it may have a two speed rear end, not knowing all the particulars of the OP truck I did not list everything, just throwing out ideas. If it has a two speed (rare for 4x4, but they were made) in low for sure it will be plenty low enough for parade duty. Or you could possibly set it up for 2wd in low range on the transfer case.

As to the radiator, it may or may not be higher, but moving that is not a big thing, after all I was assuming that the radiator would be used from the donor truck. That would be a lot easier than adapting the fittings on the radiator to the inline six, at least in my opinion. The donor radiator would have a tranny cooler as well, although consideration of a supplemental cooler for low speed parade duty should be considered.

When I post a long post people tell me I am posting too much info, when I post a quickie, then people tell me I forgot things. Oh well what to do!

Wiring of course will need some attention, I would use the original senders to match the gauges in the dash, going to a single wire alternator would simplify things a bit, other wise it should be fairly straight forward.

Not sure if the truck has power steering or not, or air brakes, so some fabrication could be needed to mount those accessories as well.

Not sure what size the original speedo cable hookup is either, Ford used some different sizes, adaptation may be required as well as a gear ratio adapter to get the speedo to read right., although again, if this is a parade truck, most speedo on these trucks really don't work all that well below 10 mph, so perhaps omitting this might be ok.

There are other things that will come up I am sure, like all swaps, but it would make a heck of a parade truck.

David
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  #10  
Old 07-17-2014, 12:45 AM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Just put a 370 back in it and be driving it in a few days. Reliably.
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  #11  
Old 07-17-2014, 12:53 AM
dmanlyr dmanlyr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85e150six4mtod View Post
Just put a 370 back in it and be driving it in a few days. Reliably.
That would be the easy way, and it sure saves a whole lot of typing!

David
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2014, 07:52 AM
Notmeofficer Notmeofficer is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions
I'm still very interested in the six...
While it will be a parade truck it would still be fully functional as a fire engine for structure protection around the ranch.

Yes... I could go any 300 and stick it in.. I would rather keep some semblence of collectability in this period piece since it only has 19k miles on it... and because plans changed as I acquired more f600s...

So... I would like to continue to look for the correct combo...which as we know will be hard to find.

This is an excellent site and I have had great support from people ... what I'm looking for might just show up

With the divorced transfer case my transmission options are unlimited
I have several 5 speeds... even a extreme duty built c6... most would work with the six.. though might not be period correct

The 300 is a poor mans diesel... and when built properly with correct expectations are ultra reliable... 370s... well.. its a dog... I know I have two...
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:21 AM
dmanlyr dmanlyr is offline
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I still see quite a few F500/600's six cylinders come up for sale as complete trucks now and then on Craigslist (Seattle). I can understand wanting to keep it period correct so that may be one option as well.

There was a nice reasonably priced stake bed F600, six for sale a couple of weeks ago. Not anything that interested me as it lacked power steering, air brakes and a automatic, so I would not drive it, but it still was a nice complete driving truck. So they are out there.

That would also get you everything you need as it sounds like it is defiantly going to be more than a parade truck, in fact it sounds like parade duty is really a afterthought, and not its primary purpose which is still a working truck.

That means it also has to have low gears to climb hills, pretty much rules out the C6 then. Of course it does not rule out a period correct Allison MT series, and I can personally attest that they have plenty low enough first gears

Not sure if it has a PTO, but the C6 has no provision, the Allison has provisions on both sides as well as being able to drive with the PTO engaged without damage to the tranny. Of course the PTO might be off your transfer case as well.

David
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2014, 12:07 PM
Notmeofficer Notmeofficer is offline
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The truck has 6.17s... now fully built with detroit lockers front and rear and avm hubs
an allison would be nice if I found the whole combo... but I also have several sticks in the parts bin that are options
I also have a c6 that was built for a puller truck that has a low first gear... it might work just fine for this application...especially behind a six... (it was built for 800hp so I think it can handle the torque of the six and live just fine,,, no pto is necessary... the truck has electric winches .. and no longer needs the center mount pump which I removed during the teardown ... the transfer case got really busy with multiple driveshafts coming of it short one from trans to tc.. short one from tc to center pump.. long one to rear.. now all that is gone..... the truck originally had a center mount driveshaft driven pump... Im going to put a skid mounted setup back on (24hp honda driving 1 1/2 inch lines as opposed to the center mount pump which was a true 500gpm pump that could supply a 3 inch line so that it could fight structure fires.. the skid setup would make it ok for grass fires and structure protection)... the original frame was doubled.. but it was hurt from having the pump overflow spray on it all the time.. I repaired it but couldnt get happy with it so I found a new frame which took it from a LWB to SWB. Ill put bumper mounted sprayer nozzles on it as well.. whcih would make it a true wildland rig.

Currently the axles are all done and the frame is all done... the cab was pretty cherry.. the fire body was sold.. it had a full fire panel controls , compartments, and 750 gallon tank.. ( It was heavy and the 370 ran it like a dead dog.. I never got it above 45 full throttle) I will build a flatbed in i place of the fire body.. the truck will be vastly lighter and way more nimble

I love the 300... I think it would be cool in this truck especailly if I make some nice build tweaks to it.. its never going to be a freeway truck.. 45 mph... works fine.. I have other f600s that can be freeway flyers

PS .. keep your eyes peeled for me please.
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2014, 07:37 PM
dmanlyr dmanlyr is offline
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It sounds like you have a pretty good plan. I will keep my eye out for any 300 stuff.

David
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:37 PM
 
 
 
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