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  #1  
Old 07-15-2014, 02:59 AM
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Ideas for broken injector cup still in head removal?

Like the title says, I'm looking for any options I might have to remove the broken "tip" of the injector cup.

6 of the 8 came out without issue. #'s 1 and 3 however broke at the top of the small portion going into the head.

I have tried using a lag bolt to catch the lip and slide hammer to pull, also tried using a heat gun followed by a slide hammer with a hook attachment.

Even if I had to pull the head I am not sure still how I could get it out, unless there is enough lip to drive it out from the bottom.

Hoping someone can offer some other suggestions. Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:05 AM
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Wow... that's a real ugly project. The tip gave way? I haven't heard of that one. Can you take a picture of the offending cups out of the head? This would be something to see.

There is no way to drive it from the bottom.

Well... my Dremel saved my butt for cleaning the hole out in preparation for the sealant. I have a few bits made for digging in and cutting sideways - they look similar to a drill bit, but it's obvious they are something different. I would urge you to have a Dremel-like device, you'll need it for cleaning anyway. Be careful not to get shavings in the cylinder - I would block the hole with a small steel bolt (can be removed with a magnet), and put a shop-vac hose in cylinder 5 while you're making flecks of brass. Also be careful not to drill into the steel.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:12 AM
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I agree, a picture of what came out would help us visualize what's left in there. I'm imagining a break right at one of the tapers. The top "ring" came out leaving a shorter version if the cup still in the head?

This has Tugly written all over it.

When you say you used a lag bolt, do you mean through the hole where the tip goes? Any chance another smaller size thread die would be able to cut and grab into the remaining cup?
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:22 AM
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I think you got more trouble than a average mechanic can handle. I'd be pulling said head and making a trip to a cylinder head service company. One could use a sinker EDM and burn the remaining piece out, but this can't be the first time it's ever happened.

Maybe a local head company has a trade program?
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:25 AM
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I assume it's just the flat land in the tip where the copper chamber gasket seals against it? I think I'd find out what would act as a solvent for that sealant, saturate a cotton ball with it and stuff it down in there. Repeat as many times as necessary until it's loose.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachu View Post
I assume it's just the flat land in the tip where the copper chamber gasket seals against it? I think I'd find out what would act as a solvent for that sealant, saturate a cotton ball with it and stuff it down in there. Repeat as many times as necessary until it's loose.
I believe that diameter is a press fit as well.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:42 AM
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I gotta agree with Dan. Its probably going to need a trip to the machine shop.
As deep as the cup is in the bore... it will be total hell to get an endmill down there and be able to see what its cutting. Edm may (as much as i hate to say it) be the only option if it cant be driven out from the other side with percussive encouragement.

If I were going that far... i might see how much a replacement head would cost delivered vs. the machining work.

That sucks big sweaty gorilla nuts Brother.
Fingers crossed it lets loose with solvent.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyt View Post

This has Tugly written all over it.

When you say you used a lag bolt, do you mean through the hole where the tip goes? Any chance another smaller size thread die would be able to cut and grab into the remaining cup?
The bottom of the cup has a substantial taper.
A tap would not be so friendly forcing into a cone...
I'd be terrified the cutters would make it through the cup and cut in to the seat in the head.

Im trying to envision a device to cap off the cup to compression, and possibly use the pressure in that cylinder from cycling the starter to "blow" it out...
Maybe a freeze plug could hold the pressure?
Freeze plug + grey goo?
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:53 AM
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Ok, is it a failure like this?


Click the image to open in full size.

Image from: http://blogs.dieselpowermag.com/6761...?__federated=1
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:55 AM
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I was initially thinking the failure was higher up, but this sounds more like what you are describing. Chris do you not think a die the right size would be able to grab enough meat there in what's left, assuming the above picture is the type of failure we are dealing with?
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:15 AM
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Jeff....if the bottom of your picture, below the crack, is all that is left in the head....he's got problems. Problems big enough that there should be substantial concern for any debris getting into the cylinder.

If it were mine, I'd pull the head. If the head shop can work it out, super. I would break that head all the way down, hot tank, all new cups...I'd freshen the valves at the same time as well.....or trade in on a rehabbed unit.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyt View Post
I was initially thinking the failure was higher up, but this sounds more like what you are describing. Chris do you not think a die the right size would be able to grab enough meat there in what's left, assuming the above picture is the type of failure we are dealing with?
Ehhh... it seems iffy. Not a whole lot of material there to grab on.
It is worth a shot tho before pulling the head.

Would have to come up with a way to attach the tap to another some such relative to the cup removal tool... or slide hammer.



This thread has guaranteed i will do the cups on Zombieheart before setting the heads on the freshly machined block.

And Jeff... I just got approved for my raise, so things should be happening faster with reassembly. Hows the transmission coming along?

Sorry for the mini-hijacking.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christof13T View Post
Ehhh... it seems iffy. Not a whole lot of material there to grab on.
It is worth a shot tho before pulling the head.

Would have to come up with a way to attach the tap to another some such relative to the cup removal tool... or slide hammer.



This thread has guaranteed i will do the cups on Zombieheart before setting the heads on the freshly machined block.

And Jeff... I just got approved for my raise, so things should be happening faster with reassembly. Hows the transmission coming along?

Sorry for the mini-hijacking.
It was in the bay when I stopped by yesterday morning. They hadn't pulled anything yet though. Congrats on the raise, let me know the timeline, I'll try to plan being there for the swap. BigAl has the cup tools, so hopefully we can get him squared away pretty quick.

Al, if you have one of the old cups that you can test fit, I'd try to find a die that could be modified to grab what's left. If it can't be done, it's a head job for sure. I can't think of any other way to get it out. You've done due diligence with the lag bolt through the nozzle hole. I don't think there is much else that can be done.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffreyt View Post
Ok, is it a failure like this?

Perfect example. Sorry for the late response.



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Old 07-15-2014, 01:37 PM
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I wonder if a product call "Freeze off" from CRC might work? I have used it off and on for problem parts and had good luck.

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Old 07-15-2014, 01:37 PM
 
 
 
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