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96 E350, died while driving

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  #16  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:52 AM
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When you turn the key to the run position, do you get a wait to start light? If not, check the under hood fuse panel. Fuse #22 is a blue 30 amp fuse that powers the fuel heater and PCM. If it is blown, unhook the fuel heater and replace the fuse.
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:31 AM
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The OP did say he is getting a WTS in post # 2.
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  #18  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:36 AM
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Batteries are on the older side, so going now to get them tested and if necessary get replacements. As MadMatador noted, yes im getting a wait to start light on the dash.

I just returned from the Ford dealer and purchased and installed an oem cps. I also put in an oem brand new fuel filter and made sure the bowl was nearly full. Based on the not start flow chart it states the engine needs 200 rpm to start so i hope changing the batteries will do so because with the current batteries its only hitting 120-150 rpm on crank.

I also tried unplugging the icp and that did not make any difference, still no start, still no smoke.

A few days ago i did check the hpop oil level and it seemed low so I added some, will the hpop being too low on oil make a difference ?

Thanks to all for your time !!!
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  #19  
Old 07-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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Both batteries tested fine with more than adequate CCA available so I'm going to rule the batteries out at this point.

It was starting fine previously to dying while I was driving. Seeing as it was starting fine I'm thinking that the batteries are fine.

I did purchase a fuel psi pressure so I will test the psi coming out of the bowl on crank and report those findings next.
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2014, 01:03 PM
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Have you checked the tin nut on the IPR? Keep working through that flowchart and let us know where you end up.

Cranking you may only see about 20 PSI of fuel pressure, which should be more than sufficient to get it to start.
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  #21  
Old 07-24-2014, 05:29 PM
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Hello again, reinstalled batteries and thoroughly cleaned terminal posts, getting a much better connection now, I think I was only getting electricity from one battery bc the double terminal adapter was so corroded, all set now though so I'm sure I have good battery power.

I just performed a fuel pressure test with an actual fuel pressure gauge that I just purchased, $45 (ouch) but it was worth it to know. Tried the test 2 different times so I'm pretty sure it's not giving me anything.

Now that it appears there's is no fuel pressure what does everyone think about going ahead and replacing the fuel pump?

I already have an oem replacement and all new hoses so it should be too bad, I think I can get it out without removing the turbo...

Any thoughts?
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordbox7.3 View Post
A few days ago i did check the hpop oil level and it seemed low so I added some, will the hpop being too low on oil make a difference ?
It can get a little low with extended cranking. A little low will not make a difference, empty will.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2014, 06:07 AM
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If you're sure the fuel pressure gauge is working and you're still not getting any pressure, then it sounds to me like a pump would be a logical next step. One last thing that might be worth a shot though would be to add 5 gallons of fuel to the tank. It's possible that the "shower head" (strainer) fell off the end of the pickup tube inside the fuel tank and you're just sucking air. I would recommend switching tanks, but I don't think you have dual tanks on an E series van do you? Throwing an extra $20 in fuel into it is a cheap test anyway.

If you do end up changing the pump, you will need either a 1 1/4" socket or wrench to get the banjo bolt out of the back of the pump. The pump can be removed with the turbo in place, or at least it can be on a pickup. I can't say for sure what it's like on a van.
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  #24  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:55 PM
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Hi DIY, upon cranking the engine over the fuel bowl does fill up so does that rule out the need to try putting more fuel in the tank as a test? It's nearly full anyways, and yes there is only 1 tank on the truck.

Any suggestions on how I can test the fuel pressure gauge to know if it's definitely working or not? Is there a method for testing the Schrader valve another way to see if fuel is available there?

In terms of the banjo bolt on the pump, does that have to be removed before removal of the pump from the block?

Also do you know anything about the functionality of the pump itself? It appears there is an intake from the fuel tank, then another line to the middle of the fuel bowl, and then a third line going to the bottom of the fuel bowl, does anyone know what the functions of the 3 different lines are?

Thanks so much for your time!
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2014, 11:02 PM
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Most of your questions revolev around the fact that the fuel pump you are seeing there on the engine is a two stage pump. There are actually 4 inlet/outlets on the pump if you count the banjo bolt as one. One on the bottom, two in the middle facing forward, and the banjo bolt out the back. The way the pump works is that there is a smalle diaphram pump in the pump that pulls the fuel from the tank, then pumps it through the filter (inlet and outlet 1, if you will) at around 5-7 PSI (low pressure side of the pump) and then the fuel returns from the filter and goes into the higher pressure plunger portion of the pump, where it is pressurized to about 70 PSI and pumped into the fuel galleries in the heads (at the higher pressure that the pump can create). The fuel pressure is regulated by the FPR which actually is on the return side of the heads and bleeds excess fuel back into the system to maintain the correct pressure.

Here is a link to a picture if that makes it any easier to understand. Sorry the site won't let me attach the picture directly for some dumb reason.

So to answer your more direct questions, yes the banjo bolt has to come out before you pull the pump from the block. In fact, the best way to remove it to avoid the little tappet falling out of the pump and into the engine is to remove everything from the pump and then turn the engine over by hand until the pump pushes up off the block. Then you can pull it up and out.

And also, yes, there is a chance that the low pressure part of the pump is working and filling the fuel filter housing, but the piston side of the pump is bad and can't build pressure thorough the heads.

That's a long, answer for a small question...
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  #26  
Old 07-26-2014, 09:44 AM
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Excellent explanation Nate. That helps increase my knowledge-base as well. I'll be replacing my fuel pump on Wednesday, with the help of a friend. Reps sent.

Here's my attempt at attaching your picture:
Click the image to open in full size.
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  #27  
Old 07-28-2014, 08:50 PM
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Hi everyone, thanks for all the responses and the insight into my situation. I got introduced to a friend of a friend who works on psd's. He came over tonight when his scanner and was able to pull some codes.

He got a few different codes but the ones that he said were noteworthy were

1293
1294
& 1298

In his opinion all signs point to a bad IDM. We removed the IDM and while it was damp in the outside and very dirty there didn't appear to be any water in the casing that we could hear when shaking it.

Does anyone have a method of testing or ohming out the IDM to ensure that it's faulty before spending $400plus on a new one?

If that's what it is I'm happy to pay that but if just like to have some opinions beforehand.

Thanks!
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  #28  
Old 07-28-2014, 09:57 PM
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Can you borrow one and try it on your truck? Or, better yet, try yours on another truck?
I can tell you for sure, don't pay $400, look on ebay or something.
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  #29  
Old 07-29-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYMechanic View Post
Most of your questions revolev around the fact that the fuel pump you are seeing there on the engine is a two stage pump. There are actually 4 inlet/outlets on the pump if you count the banjo bolt as one. One on the bottom, two in the middle facing forward, and the banjo bolt out the back. The way the pump works is that there is a smalle diaphram pump in the pump that pulls the fuel from the tank, then pumps it through the filter (inlet and outlet 1, if you will) at around 5-7 PSI (low pressure side of the pump) and then the fuel returns from the filter and goes into the higher pressure plunger portion of the pump, where it is pressurized to about 70 PSI and pumped into the fuel galleries in the heads (at the higher pressure that the pump can create). The fuel pressure is regulated by the FPR which actually is on the return side of the heads and bleeds excess fuel back into the system to maintain the correct pressure.

Here is a link to a picture if that makes it any easier to understand. Sorry the site won't let me attach the picture directly for some dumb reason.

So to answer your more direct questions, yes the banjo bolt has to come out before you pull the pump from the block. In fact, the best way to remove it to avoid the little tappet falling out of the pump and into the engine is to remove everything from the pump and then turn the engine over by hand until the pump pushes up off the block. Then you can pull it up and out.

And also, yes, there is a chance that the low pressure part of the pump is working and filling the fuel filter housing, but the piston side of the pump is bad and can't build pressure thorough the heads.

That's a long, answer for a small question...

Awesome explanation. I'm sure this helps a lot of us novice diesel guys.

To the op, if your IDM is bad, there is a place in Florida, forget the name at the moment. They are a big rebuild place. I paid in the 150? Range 2-3 years ago.
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  #30  
Old 03-11-2015, 08:56 PM
fordbox7.3 fordbox7.3 is offline
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After a long wait I ordered a new idm and that was the issue. I got one for $125 refurbished on eBay. After 20 seconds of cranking she fired right up. Things were fine for a few weeks, however while on a short trip to boston to help a friend move she died on me again. It was a cold day here in CT about -5. Had it towed to a garage and they replaced the fuel filter and added some diesel 911. We were able to get her to start but ran very rough and would not move when put in drive. Eventually after 5 minutes the motor stopped running altogether and we weren't able to get it started again. Ended up renting a uhaul to finish the day off and had my truck towed back to my house. Now I'm trying to diagnose the issue and here's what I know.
1. No check engine light
2. "Wait to start light" does come on and go off when key is turned on.
3. I am getting an rpm count on my scanner when motor is cranked although it is on the lower side of 200-300 rpms.
4. Batteries were recently tested and are fine.
5. Starter motor was replaced about 2 months ago and cranks strong.
6. Fuel is fresh and tank is full.
7. Not getting any white smoke out of the tailpipe on crank.

These are my observations thus far. My next step will be to pull off fuel filter cap and make sure bowl is filling up on cranking.

I bought a fuel pressure test gauge in the past to try and test fuel pressure but never had any luck getting a reading, any recommendations for a good gauge meant for diesel testing?

Is there a chance my mechanical fuel pump died or where should I start my diagnosis ?

Thanks in advance for any advise.

Andy
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Old 03-11-2015, 08:56 PM
 
 
 
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