Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Newer Light Duty Trucks > 2004 - 2008 F150
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


2004 - 2008 F150 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 Ford F150's with 5.4 V8, 4.6 V8 or 4.2 V6 engine
SPONSORED BY:
Click HereAdvertisement

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 07-08-2014, 06:54 PM
jjward101 jjward101 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6
jjward101 is starting off with a positive reputation.
5.4l Clunking at idle, driving fine at road speeds...

Hi,
I tried the coveted search button before posting this. Im sure it will come as a shock to most of you that there is someone out there having issues with am '05 5.4l Triton, but hey...here i am!

Im blowing a few different codes. I should start with the fact that I am 1 tooth off on my timing, and will be addressing that this weekend. Its been this way for about 6 months, and I dont drive it very much because of it. It also hasnt been a major drivability issue. Ive already done the cam phasers and all timing components, just ended up a tooth off on bank 1. The timing related codes im getting ar a P0340 and P0344. My post is NOT about these codes.

Yesterday, I began driving just fine. About 20 minutes in, it started to violently shake, so I pulled over and pulled out my code scanner. I had a P2196 going. I did as much research as I could, and here is what I have determined.....

1. Its not likely the actual O2 sensor (bank 1 sensor 1). it seems that that is more of a symptom than an actual problem.

2. It could be fuel injector, so I removed the fuel rail just high enough to watch them, and then went Key On-Engine Off. I put dry clean rags under each and came back an hour later...they were still dry and there didnt appear to be any leakage from any injector.

2a. I put the fuel rail back together, and took a ride. In addition to the P2196, I was now blowing a P0203 (fault in fuel injector circuit for cylinder 3 ). I cleared the codes and drove to a small local shop owned by a friend.

3. At the shop the mechanic put a screwdriver up to cylinder 3 and proclaimed that i probably bent a valve, the cylinder wasn't doing anything. I did pull the COP and put a plug into it and ground it. I am getting spark.

It seems to me, that if the cylinder is dead while the engine is idling, it is still going to be dead at 40 mph. I dont think ive bent a valve as the mechanic suggested.....he seemed to eager to sell me a new engine, and diagnosed that in roughly 60 seconds. Throughout the process ive had p2196, p0203, p0340 & 344, and p0174.

While my first instinct is to dig a hole around this truck, financially i am totally screwed if I have to do that...just dont have the cash right now. Can anyone offer any advise OTHER than 'hey i have the same problem"? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-08-2014, 07:30 PM
carguy94 carguy94 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southern maryland
Posts: 337
carguy94 is starting off with a positive reputation.
well lets deal with all electrical components if you will.
po344- Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Intermittent Bank 1 or Single Sensor

P2196 - O2 Sensor Signal Stuck Rich Bank 1 Sensor 1

po203- Injector Circuit Malfunction Cylinder 3

po340- Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 1

po174-System Too Lean bank 2

lets start with the cam sensor codes being you have done timing work i suggest you correct the timing issue first. check the the camshaft position sensor and its wiring are intact and not damaged if need be you can check signal and all wiring ins and out and what is missing if any being the timing is off. the injector circuit should deal with the firing event of said fuel injector be sure this and all injectors are firing a test light and volt meter are at minimal the tools you will need. a fuel pressure gauge would be very useful as well. the system to lean bank two could have to do with fuel pressure and or fuel distribution all of these codes are separate aside from the camshaft position senor fault codes and most likely have nothing to do with the senor it self in less it was mis installed. and not to skip the oxygen sensor code could be due to conditions that exist inside the engine sensor wiring form the control. testing and eliminating all of these one at a time would be the easier way if you wish to do so and you can test for all and any conditions. one more thing you can have spark but it has to be a strong and correctly timed spark. do you have a compression gauge and a leak down gauge along with compressed air. and sorry to mention cam codes i know you said you are addressing this but just to make sure they are not related to any other engine performance. if it means anything most if not all these codes may go away once your correct the timing.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-08-2014, 11:10 PM
jjward101 jjward101 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6
jjward101 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Im thinking that the 2196 couldve been related to the fact that i used a liberal amount of carb cleaner when cleaning the throttle body yesterday... I disconnected the negative battery terminal for 10 minutes and the only thing that remained was a p0172 and p0174.
Reading through some of the threads, I again was checking for vacuum leaks using carb cleaner and sure enough, the 2196 code came back. I did also replace the mass airflow sensor.

Ive been reading that on so,e of these engines there is a leaky pcv elbow behind the engine. Can anyone confirm that this would be present on the 2005 5.4?

I did test each EFI and wiring with a test light tonight. They are all good.

I fix HVAC for a living, so I am very good with a meter, but HVAC and cars are different animals so I am basically in an unfamiliar place. I have the tools, but dont know what the heck to do with them under a hood, lol.

The cam codes have been present for months. I spoke with a guy today who tells me that they can actually happen as a result of the alternator and that I shouldnt be too worried about them. I plan on ignoring him as far as not being worried.

I really dont have the money to drop a motor in this thing, or I would. I just replaced the MAF sensor, noth Cam sensors, and a few months back did the phasers and all timing components. For once, I could REALLY use a break. Frustration just isnt my thing.

In short, im left with a p0173 and p0174
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-08-2014, 11:46 PM
carguy94 carguy94 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southern maryland
Posts: 337
carguy94 is starting off with a positive reputation.
ok good those two codes may be very well related to the timing issue and may go away as a result of when you correct the timing reset the computer and see if any remain. and the starter can play a roll in the cam codes as well but just fix the timing and see what if any problem still exists beings the engine is out of time it plays with the fuel mixture and that in returns confuses the computer so sounds like you got it under control sorry i could not be more help. yes the pcv elbow can crack on this year truck as well.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-09-2014, 09:22 AM
jjward101 jjward101 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6
jjward101 is starting off with a positive reputation.
I have none of this under control. I took the day off from work today to try to deal with this. It just doesn't make sense to me that a bent valve would function properly (and the truck drive smooth as a babys butt) at 40 mph, but not at idle.

Im going to try to change the fuel filter this morning first, since when i disconnected the negative battery cable to reset everything I was left only with a p0172 and p0174.

The cam codes have been there for months, and havent affected driving of the truck...and I have had exactly ZERO other codes besides the cam codes up until a few days ago.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-09-2014, 09:29 AM
carguy94 carguy94 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southern maryland
Posts: 337
carguy94 is starting off with a positive reputation.
do you have a compression gauge this will tell you weather you have mechanical issues or not as a bent valve most likely would not go away i doubt a filter will do anything as far as running other than just doing maintenance don't waste your time. remember the fuel mixture is a timed event also. do you have access to a code reader with live data. how does it run engine cold.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-09-2014, 09:59 AM
jjward101 jjward101 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6
jjward101 is starting off with a positive reputation.
I dont have access to live data, but i do have a compression tester. What is the normal range?

The only two codes showing up are
P0172
P0174

I cant help but think that id have a P030X code going if it was a bent valve.
I am still trying to find if there is a pcv elbow on the back of the engine. It seems that there is a vacuum hose that connects on the back, but it comes from the evap purge valve, not the pcv valve.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-09-2014, 10:17 AM
carguy94 carguy94 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southern maryland
Posts: 337
carguy94 is starting off with a positive reputation.
you want to see well over 100 pound more like at least 140 pounds the best way is to average the compression based off other cylinders so when you do it disable fuel injectors so the thing wont start and i would check at least 3 cylinders. but only thing is be very very careful with the plugs when you take them out other wise they will break off in the head. do you have a vacuum gauge that might be a better fist test sorry don't mean to jump from test to test but you might not want to pull a plug out of this engine. p0172 is now a rich code you now have rich and lean codes. try using propane to check for leaks and running compressed air in a cylinder could reveal a leak.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-09-2014, 12:26 PM
jjward101 jjward101 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6
jjward101 is starting off with a positive reputation.
How do you use propane to leak check? Havent heard of that one before...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-09-2014, 12:48 PM
carguy94 carguy94 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southern maryland
Posts: 337
carguy94 is starting off with a positive reputation.
crack the propane mixture open and put it near any wear air goes in to the engine and look for a change in rpm particularly a drop or the engine might stall. its real nice to have a smoke tester it will show you if their are any leaks.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-09-2014, 03:57 PM
jjward101 jjward101 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6
jjward101 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Question:

What would the symptoms of a bad valve be? I know the compression test matters most, but for the sake of argument...

1. would it idle VIOLENTLY and smooth out at highway speeds?
2. would it throw a misfire code of some sort?

if it does end up being a bad valve, is it worth (as a stopgap measure to get me 5 months) to do the valve repair?

Im really in a tough spot in that i started a new business a few months ago and have ALL of my available credit tied up in the business. If i can make this thing last until october im golden.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-09-2014, 04:33 PM
ojai150 ojai150 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 353
ojai150 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjward101 View Post
Question:

What would the symptoms of a bad valve be? I know the compression test matters most, but for the sake of argument...

1. would it idle VIOLENTLY and smooth out at highway speeds?
2. would it throw a misfire code of some sort?

if it does end up being a bad valve, is it worth (as a stopgap measure to get me 5 months) to do the valve repair?

Im really in a tough spot in that i started a new business a few months ago and have ALL of my available credit tied up in the business. If i can make this thing last until october im golden.
Without a vacuum / compression test , all this speculation has no value .

report back with results,...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-09-2014, 05:18 PM
carguy94 carguy94 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southern maryland
Posts: 337
carguy94 is starting off with a positive reputation.
like the fellow said get some evidence as guessing really gets you stuck. symptoms of a bad valve would be a miss at idle that goes away when you accelerate i have never seen a bent valve that went away but leaky or improperly timed valves can. when the timing is off it gives that radical lope sound the radical sound can be all but a misfire. a leak down test would really be the ticket for you at your home shop.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-11-2014, 12:52 PM
70f100longbed's Avatar
70f100longbed 70f100longbed is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Raleigh USA
Posts: 1,061
70f100longbed has a very good reputation on FTE.70f100longbed has a very good reputation on FTE.70f100longbed has a very good reputation on FTE.
Does it sound like
? If so then the updated VCT solenoids in my signature might fix it.
__________________
Ford senior master tech
Every 5.4 3V owner should have Lisle tool #65600
8L3Z-6M280-B updated VCT solenoids for 5.4 3V rattle
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-11-2014, 08:27 PM
carguy94 carguy94 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southern maryland
Posts: 337
carguy94 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70f100longbed View Post
Does it sound like this? If so then the updated VCT solenoids in my signature might fix it.
his timing is off until he fixes his timing then nothing is going to fix it. did this fix the engine in the video what was or is wrong with this engine in the video.
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 08:27 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
03 Explorer P2196 & P0405 Code Question wiwillis1980 Explorer, Sport Trac, Mountaineer & Aviator 1 06-22-2014 06:22 PM
Ford does this on purpose MAF, TB, EGR knotez1 2004 - 2008 F150 10 09-29-2013 09:51 PM
6.7 DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) Sgt93 6.7L Power Stroke Diesel 9 06-22-2012 12:47 AM
Unfixable problem, need help! rr38690 Expedition & Navigator 12 10-14-2011 06:56 AM
Fuel problems Steveaustin 2004 - 2008 F150 9 05-24-2009 11:07 AM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Newer Light Duty Trucks > 2004 - 2008 F150

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup