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  #106  
Old 07-13-2014, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tugly View Post

My personal concerns are the fact that it needs a body lift to work on it (I could never tighten an injector bolt on the road, and continue on with my vacation), and the complexity of the array of electronics. I think electronics will prairie-dog within 7 years, and grow worse every year after that - but your crystal ball is as good as mine.
really? you are concerned with a 6.7 because you couldnt pull over and tighten an injector bolt? isn't that the whole idea behind buying a new truck, you dont have to f with it? I can honestly say you are the only person i have heard of that drives around and tighten injector bolts so often...
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  #107  
Old 07-13-2014, 04:06 PM
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PS, that picture isn't terrible impressive. When you can do that in 4 wheel drive we can talk.
Oh you antagonizer !!!

4x4 burnouts are when you really start putting power to the ground !!!
Stuff starts creaking and moaning in new ways.
This is the gateway to find the weak points on your truck, really fast .. lol.

I tried it on with my 6.4 once, with the 350+ spartan tune.
The amount of acceleration is scary, and I swear I could just sense all the metal flexing and screaming for me to stop, haha.
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  #108  
Old 07-13-2014, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by acf6 View Post
really? you are concerned with a 6.7 because you couldnt pull over and tighten an injector bolt? isn't that the whole idea behind buying a new truck, you dont have to f with it? I can honestly say you are the only person i have heard of that drives around and tighten injector bolts so often...
This is part of the issue; being able to access the engine from the hood is played up as being a "break the deal" type of issue. I can't speak for everyone, but I work lots, and use my truck for work... if it breaks, I'm not tearing it down on the side of the road, or the back yard; it's going to the shop.
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  #109  
Old 07-13-2014, 04:22 PM
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The way I look at it, mine suits my needs, it's paid for
This ^^^^^.

There is a huge difference between needing something and wanting it.
I need a truck that can haul a load in the box, and haul trailers from time to time.
A 1990 7.3 IDI F350 would do me just fine, with all 170 HP.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say the trucks are being marketed to the chickey poo's as much as men now, with the stereo's and cup holders and quiet smooth ride.
So with that being said, and without suspense,

The reason the new trucks always win, is because when the wife sees one, they go all crazy and start thinking about how nice it is.
Mine liked the 7.3, but LOVES the 6.4. The 6.7 kinda, but not different enough from the 6.4 to spend the cash on one.

So there.

If it wasn't for her, I might be driving a 1990 7.3 with rust holes and fixing it in the driveway on my day off, and ordering parts to make more power than other trucks.
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  #110  
Old 07-13-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
This ^^^^^.

There is a huge difference between needing something and wanting it.
I need a truck that can haul a load in the box, and haul trailers from time to time.
A 1990 7.3 IDI F350 would do me just fine, with all 170 HP.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say the trucks are being marketed to the chickey poo's as much as men now, with the stereo's and cup holders and quiet smooth ride.
So with that being said, and without suspense,

The reason the new trucks always win, is because when the wife sees one, they go all crazy and start thinking about how nice it is.
Mine liked the 7.3, but LOVES the 6.4. The 6.7 kinda, but not different enough from the 6.4 to spend the cash on one.

So there.

If it wasn't for her, I might be driving a 1990 7.3 with rust holes and fixing it in the driveway on my day off, and ordering parts to make more power than other trucks.
This is how I feel about fancy shotguns as well.......sure I love my friend's gun but it cost him more than a new 6.7L (I kid you not)......but I've asked the birds I have shot whether they feel slighted being shot with only a $1K gun......they've been silent on the subject. Same with my truck, I still get the trailer safely where I need to just like like a newer rig and I'm never lacking power for what I tow.......

I'm not trying to impress my wife or anyone else with a vehicle.....I feel no need. Plus, she's just happy I tow the horses around for her.....and yes the new rigs are very woman friendly. I see plenty of women driving very nice rigs all blinged out on the horse show circuit.......ever want a clean babied high mileage diesel rig? Go to a horse show and find one there driven by a careful woman toting her "babies" around on the weekends. lol

But ask them what they like about their new King Ranch 6.7 or Denali Duramax and they will list about 30 interior features well before they mention anything mechanical, that isn't a knock on them, just proves they are focused on something different, just like the folks towing with a Range Rover or Escalade......different things blow their hair back compared to mine lol
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  #111  
Old 07-13-2014, 11:57 PM
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You are only guessing on power numbers. Until you put that pig on the track you can't make any claims that aren't coming out your keister.

Still, if your truck can't handle a trip to the track it has no business towing a fifth wheel across the country.

PS, that picture isn't terrible impressive. When you can do that in 4 wheel drive we can talk.
As for my HP numbers - I'm counting on my tuner's expertise on that one. He loaded me up with tunes that have been on the dyno with similarly-equipped 7.3L Superdutys. Restoring the truck to like-new running condition (which I have done) is not as common as just powering it up - so I have reason to believe the dyno numbers on the other trucks will hold true on Stinky.

I don't tow in race tune, I thought I mentioned that.

I never said the performance of Stage II injectors was all that... I just think that once you shred tires (and lose the ***) in Torque Converter Lock Up - how much more power do we really need?

Click the image to open in full size.

When the 6.7L can do that in 4WD and hold together, we can talk.

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Originally Posted by acf6 View Post
really? you are concerned with a 6.7 because you couldnt pull over and tighten an injector bolt? isn't that the whole idea behind buying a new truck, you dont have to f with it? I can honestly say you are the only person i have heard of that drives around and tighten injector bolts so often...
For $60,000, the damn thing had better not need service for the rest of my life. I used the injector bolt "example" to illustrate that as soon as I need new injectors on the 6.7L (or something akin to a UVCH, or gawd knows what the future brings), I'm screwed. Can you imagine having to remove the body on our 7.3L to fix the UVCH... or replace glow plugs?

As for the injector that kept working its way loose, there was a mechanical problem that caused it, and it was solved this winter. The problem could have just as easily happened to the Ford mechanic, and they would have been deep in my pockets to resolve it... if the body needed to be lifted to get at it.

Stinky is paid for - and all the mods have been purchased with cash as time and finances would allow. All the while, I've been driving him from what I started with to where he is now. The 6.7L and all that "wonderful" power, features, and smoothness needs $60K today. If you don't have $60K in your Buck$Zooka, you have to pay a bank interest to pre-load the ammo. The interest, insurance payment, vehicle licensing, DPF supplies, and DEF cost as much as my normal operational costs for Stinky - with fuel. Once you factored all of that into the 6.7L, you still have to add the fuel cost and the monthly payment.

I'm out $30K to date, leaving me with another $30K in reserve for future repairs/upgrades to counter the cost of having a shinier truck with no more performance than I have now. If I break Stinky tomorrow, I can park him and shut off the money spigot. Can you do that if you have a loan for the 6.7L?
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  #112  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:14 AM
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I don't think anybody's disputing that it's cheaper to drive an old pickup over a new one. It's cheaper to keep an old rig even if you have to pay a mechanic keep it up in most cases.

But that wasn't the original scenario, either.
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  #113  
Old 07-14-2014, 07:55 AM
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I don't think anybody's disputing that it's cheaper to drive an old pickup over a new one. It's cheaper to keep an old rig even if you have to pay a mechanic keep it up in most cases.

But that wasn't the original scenario, either.
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Just like all of you defending owning an old out of date truck...
No, it wasn't the original scenario that I posted. The term "out of date" cracks me up, though. I have more power, just as much on-board technology, more gauges, the wheels spin the same, it pulls the same (upgraded transmission) - but Stinky rides and sounds rougher than a 6.7L.

Getting back to the original scenario - If I had to pay $60K for a new 7.3L, I would know for certain that I could maintain it after the warranty was up. Not just because of the availability of aftermarket parts, but because my 7.3L (and the 6.0L as well) has something the "modern and advanced" 6.7L (and 6.4L) doesn't - access to the engine. If serviceability is an out-of-date concept - call me an old codger. People who are more apt to buy new instead of keep and maintain won't look at it this way - they just keep replacing the vehicle when it annoys them or the next shiny thing comes out.

That's the other elephant in the room that has been touched on, but not fully explored: Borrow and buy vs. hold and maintain. Those with the ability to drop $60K cash on a new truck (and have done so) aren't as likely to hang around the 7.3L forum.

I have no debt, other than the used Prius I bought. The small payment, plus the fuel to operate it is "free". I save that much money in diesel every month by not driving Stinky to work. When the Prius is paid-off in a couple of years (with a very low interest loan), that money I save is in my pocket. My wife has a mortgage from before we married, but we are looking to sell the house and buy a 5th wheel with the cash. I hate debt and I hate paying interest/finance charges. While it's the "American way" to borrow and buy - that's the up-to-date version. The original "American way" was to strike out, build your own home, plant and till the field, hunt, and be beholden to no one. Times change and we can no longer be self-sufficient to that degree - we count on infrastructure to get to work to earn money to buy groceries others provide. I still do what I can to be as self-sufficient as our reality allows. This is the modified old American way.

The original owners of the 7.3L had to buy expensive CPS sensors when they failed, then the recall came and the sensor was free or much cheaper. $10,000 for "water damage" to a fuel system while in the warranty period of the truck? When we buy the same fuel and don't get water damage? This smells like the makings of a recall and eventually - a class-action suit. Having a failed fuel system on a 6.7L is like drawing a bad card in the game of Truckopoly (as I've stated on the 6.7L forum):

Click the image to open in full size.
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  #114  
Old 07-14-2014, 08:18 AM
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sorry double post.
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  #115  
Old 07-14-2014, 08:21 AM
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No, it wasn't the original scenario that I posted. The term "out of date" cracks me up, though. I have more power, just as much on-board technology, more gauges, the wheels spin the same, it pulls the same (upgraded transmission) - but Stinky rides and sounds rougher.

Getting back to the original scenario - If I had to pay $60K for a new 7.3L, I would know for certain that I could maintain it after the warranty was up. Not just because of the availability of aftermarket parts, but because my 7.3L (and the 6.0L as well) has something the "modern and advanced" 6.7L (and 6.4L) doesn't - access to the engine. If serviceability is and out-of-date concept - call me an old codger. People who are more apt to buy new instead of keep and maintain won't look at it this way - they just keep replacing the vehicle when it annoys them or the next shiny thing comes out.
Or it might be that the time is more valuable than money to some people and they want to spend their spare time with their family, or fishing, or traveling the country instead of constantly maintaining a 20 year old vehicle.

If I missed out on a fishing trip with my 90 year old dad because my pickup needed worked on, I might look back on that and feel bad about it at some point in the not too distant future. Just sayin.
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  #116  
Old 07-14-2014, 08:32 AM
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Or it might be that the time is more valuable than money to some people and they want to spend their spare time with their family, or fishing, or traveling the country instead of constantly maintaining a 20 year old vehicle.

If I missed out on a fishing trip with my 90 year old dad because my pickup needed worked on, I might look back on that and feel bad about it at some point in the not too distant future. Just sayin.
That is a very valid point. To date - I've had to "modify" a couple of vacations because of problems with my upgrades... but those are self-inflicted. If I kept Stinky in stock configuration and maintained his 100% condition, those events would not have happened. I'm proactive, and I do what I can on my schedule - to prevent the scenario you describe.

Having such a vehicle for recreational purposes (as opposed to using it for an income) is an expensive venture - whether new or used. It's not unlike being beholden to the truck - labor or dollars or both... it's going to get a piece of you. Do I need a diesel Superduty? I lived my life just fine before I bought one. Now that I have it, and I have some skin in the game - I want to take it to the next level and live in a home that gets pulled behind it.
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  #117  
Old 07-14-2014, 09:18 AM
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The Ohio Truck Meet proved to me there's more to towing than just power. The newer trucks have features that our older trucks fall short on, both gas and diesel powered. A few minutes in a 6.7 truck with 15,000lbs behind you going up and down hills made a believer out of me real quick. There are no amount of mods, that I am aware of, that can be done to a 7.3 that will get it to that level.

I very much like my 02. But if I had to choose, hands down, the 6.7 wins in every category that would be important to me. But I can't afford them!
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  #118  
Old 07-14-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CampSpringsJohn View Post
The Ohio Truck Meet proved to me there's more to towing than just power. The newer trucks have features that our older trucks fall short on, both gas and diesel powered. A few minutes in a 6.7 truck with 15,000lbs behind you going up and down hills made a believer out of me real quick. There are no amount of mods, that I am aware of, that can be done to a 7.3 that will get it to that level.

I very much like my 02. But if I had to choose, hands down, the 6.7 wins in every category that would be important to me. But I can't afford them!
I can understand this when towing heavy like that. 15K lbs is no joke no matter what is pulling it, so any time you can afford to stack the deck a little more in your favor, whether it is anti-sway technology etc. it makes sense.

That being said, I still maintain that in my observation many diesel truck buyers are towing very average loads of 5000-10,000 lbs (myself included) and in that range is where I think the playing field is a little more level from a "tech" standpoint.

It cracks me up when guys talk about how much power their truck has whether it is a 6.7, 6.0, 7.3 etc. and then come to find out they are towing a 5000lb speed boat shaped like a bullet with a 3 axle trailer ...lol

Also, when thinking about what is being towed that weighs 12-15,000lbs, chances are the cost of a 6.7L new and the checkbook to support any trips to the dealer pale in comparison to the cost of the trailer they are towing...... :-)
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:51 AM
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That would depend on the trailer and load. We were hauling rock. Some folks have trailers for hauling excavating equipment, farm equipment, things like that. And the worth of that equipment can vary drastically. Some campers run in the 6 figure range which is the other end of the scale. While trailers can vary also in their condition, assuming you have good tires, brakes, and a weight distribution hitch for the trailer, 15,000lbs is 15,000lbs.
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  #120  
Old 07-14-2014, 10:07 AM
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15k of steel plate hauls much different than 15k built like a sail...or 15k of liquid.
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