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  #46  
Old 07-08-2014, 02:22 AM
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I currently have a 99 V10 and it does its job great. I purchased at $5k almost 2 years ago and have added atleast $3k in maintenance and minor upgrades but it does everything I ask it too. Towed a 6k lb car and trailer a couple weeks ago and did fine, towed my jet ski and family camping over the 4th of july weekend and averaged 12.7mpg. I don't have to drive it daily so it sits during the week unless absolutely neccesary. I do want to upgrade to a diesel and for initial cost the 7.3 power stroke in either Super Duty or OBS will be the way to go. 6.0's seem to be a good engine after about $5k of stuff done to make it right, 6.4 seems to need a bunch of cash to get better mileage than my V10 and I don't want to mess with the 6.7 since I don't have the finances for it. If I did that would be another story. Definately interesting reading some of your posts though.
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  #47  
Old 07-08-2014, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
First of all, I am a huge supporter of driving what you own. Trading things in is such a money pit, it's hard to even dig out of. So as far as trading a running reliable 7.3 for anything, I say don't do it unless you simply need to... unless you're rich, then by all means, buy whatever you want.

But, the way I see it, the only way the 7.3 is "better", is reliability. The newer trucks have better transmissions, stronger engines, ride better, quieter, etc. They are just better vehicles. I had a 7.3, and I loved it, by all means. But after my 6.4 truck, I don't care if this thing costs more, I wouldn't buy a 7.3 again.
Now the thing is, with reliability being the key point here, how reliable is a 400+ hp 7.3 truck?
I know lots of guys that tow with 6.7 trucks with tuners, and they tow on a mild tune yet, without much fuss at all.

Would you really call a 7.3 juiced to 400 or 500 hp a reliable truck? I wouldn't. Unless you do head studs, turbo upgrade, transmission upgrade, etc, but thats a whole new argument.

I love 7.3 trucks, but I just don't see how anyone would put them in the same category as the 6.4's or 6.7's. Did everyone forget about the rods blowing holes in the block running 80 hp tunes on a few guys trucks?

Everyone seems so fast to point out that the newer engines can melt down and cause a major failure, but I think this was all out of proportion. Yes, a brand new engine costs like almost 20,000$, but was the 7.3 much different? Is it really a better engine, or just more affordable because it's older?
Remember when the 7.3's were relatively new? Injectors were like 800$ each! Would a 7.3 still be so awesome if you had to pay 800$ an injector, 4000$ for an HPOP, or 16,000$ for an engine assembly?
Probably not, because why would you spend that much to have 250 or 270 HP?!?

My point is this; newer engines always cost more, and as time goes by, the prices drop, mechanics start becoming more familiar, issues get learned, bullet proofing methods become known, etc.

My 6.4 truck that was relatively new when I got it, is already a few years old, and I've seen in passing, engines running for under 5000$, and other relatively cheap parts, if you know where to look. If I blow an engine, it is not going to cost 20,000$ to replace, as so many thought, only a few years ago.

Even the 6.0 deserves a touch of respect. Yes people had a lot of trouble with some of them, but consider this imagination fart:

325 hp 7.3, 6.0 egr system, 6.0 turbo, etc.
VS
250 hp 6.0, plain old 7.3 turbo, no egr.

Which one would be more reliable and better?
While I agree with much of what you say about the newer trucks, better ride, more advanced everything including the transmission etc. the one thing I question is.......where are you finding a 400hp stock 6.7L? They don't exist. Those rigs consistently put 330hp to the rear wheels. A relatively mild build on a 7.3L can match that in a reliable setup without head studs etc.

Heck you don't even really need wild injectors for 330rwhp from a 7.3L. Is it a dated platform, yup.....just making a simple point with regards to power.

And honestly, based on what my 6.7L friend went through over the winter.......I will take the devil I know in the 7.3L less advanced or not....I'm on the road and he is waiting for parts at the dealer more often than he or his wallet or business would like.

Here's the basic background on his experience:

Used 6.7L Crew 250 with 65K on it $32,000
3 DEF heaters one out of his pocket the other two under warranty from that first replacement
1 radiator 100% out of his pocket
1 leaf spring package cracked
3 sensors from the fuel system out of his pocket
2-3 weeks of missed contractor work due to DEF heater unit shortage (tells you something right?)

currently on the clock 88K.......all that crap from October 2013 to May 2014

Again, devil you know vs. devil you don't.

And BTW, a bullet proofed 2007 6.0L would not be kicked out of my garage if it was given to me :-) Very nice rig.
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  #48  
Old 07-08-2014, 07:10 AM
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Addressing HP: Ford rates their engine HP at the flywheel, because they can test this, and other car makers use this number as well. It makes sense on many levels, because it sounds more impressive (for the sake of marketing) and they are advertising the engine HP, not the vehicle HP with wheels, gearing, and transmission taken into account.

We on the forum with our mods don't have the capability of checking the engine HP - just our vehicle HP, by way of a dyno. I haven't dyno'd Stinky, and I may never do it... but those who have done my mods have handily topped 400 RWHP on the dyno. This is a 7.3L with significantly more power available than the stock 6.7L.

Now... the question of reliability with a 400 RWHP 7.3L: I believe if it's done correctly (with a lot of mods to the truck to accept the added power), and the driver treats the rig with respect (instead of it being an 8000-pound chew toy), the reliability will be there. To get to this point, you don't need a $10K used truck and $50K worth of mods - I may have done it with $20K worth of mods. Cheaper, stronger, and more durable... but reliability has yet to be proven. I'm not a good example of this, but I have been working the kinks out of an abused truck... and I may be there now - or not.

If I drive with all 400 horses on the loose every time I tow, I think I'll burn Stinky up. To that end, I have a tow tune that works out to (drum roll) 330 RWHP Max, this protects Stinky from overdoing it... but I would still drive by gauges. If you drive a 6.7L with all 330 horses at a full run on every tow - I yield to those who have one of these.
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  #49  
Old 07-08-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugly View Post
Addressing HP: Ford rates their engine HP at the flywheel, because they can test this, and other car makers use this number as well. It makes sense on many levels, because it sounds more impressive (for the sake of marketing) and they are advertising the engine HP, not the vehicle HP with wheels, gearing, and transmission taken into account.

We on the forum with our mods don't have the capability of checking the engine HP - just our vehicle HP, by way of a dyno. I haven't dyno'd Stinky, and I may never do it... but those who have done my mods have handily topped 400 RWHP on the dyno. This is a 7.3L with significantly more power than the 6.7L.

Now... the question of reliability with a 400 RWHP 7.3L: I believe if it's done correctly (with a lot of mods to the truck to accept the added power), and the driver treats the rig with respect (instead of it being an 8000-pound chew toy), the reliability will be there. To get to this point, you don't need a $10K used truck and $50K worth of mods - I may have done it with $20K worth of mods. Cheaper, stronger, and more durable... but reliability has yet to be proven. I'm not a good example of this, but I have been working the kinks out of an abused truck... and I may be there now - or not.

If I drive with all 400 horses on the loose every time I tow, I think I'll burn Stinky up. To that end, I have a tow tune that works out to (drum roll) 330 RWHP Max, this protects Stinky from overdoing it... but I would still drive by gauges. If you drive a 6.7L with all 330 horses at a full run on every tow - I yield to those who have one of these.
Bingo. I figured everyone understood the flywheel marketing figures vs. real world dyno figures......thanks for filling in the gap.

330 rwhp in a reasonably built and maintained 7.3L can be pretty darn reliable. That being said, my buddy has his 6.7L 100% stock so call it 330 rwhp as well and I already posted what his winter was like.....so from a reliability standpoint....jury is still out, but this is a 3 year old 6.7 with 88K on it with a repair bill larger than a used 7.3L, damn near every 7.3 on here is a decade older with plenty more on the clock than his 2011.......again the jury is still out on the 6.7.....at least in my mind, plenty have made up their mind either way on the 6.7L.

Again, devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
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  #50  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:21 AM
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Tugly: I used the search function and (unless you registered under a different user name) I couldn't see where you turned the telescope around and posted a 6.7 vs 7.3 thread in the 6.7 forum. Some of those 6.7 owners are no doubt 7.3 or were 7.3 owners. So, if you did start a thread in the 6.7 forum, or do start a thread over there, please let us know, because to fully round out the discussion it would be interesting to have their perspective as well.
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  #51  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Hodgson View Post
Tugly: I used the search function and (unless you registered under a different user name) I couldn't see where you turned the telescope around and posted a 6.7 vs 7.3 thread in the 6.7 forum. Some of those 6.7 owners are no doubt 7.3 or were 7.3 owners. So, if you did start a thread in the 6.7 forum, or do start a thread over there, please let us know, because to fully round out the discussion it would be interesting to have their perspective as well.
Admittedly, I haven't read through all this yet but this thread started off interesting:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13...-18-000-a.html

Or this one.....which seems to be representative of the valve issues people are having....

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13...-1-trucks.html

Or the old "fuel contamination" new fuel system jobber for $18K



Sure we can search and find threads about issues with each truck, all I'm throwing out there is that when it comes down to in service reliability of the 7.3L vs. the 6.7L the jury on the 6.7L hasn't even been picked yet let alone rendered a decision......

First thread.....2 turbos in 98K miles then blows a rod through the block at 100K.....second thread, valve issue, new engine needed at <20K miles.....then there is the more common than you think it should be "water contamination" = new fuel system for >$10K........aren't 7.3Ls running the same fuel? Just askin'.....yikes....

Again these are random but relatively representative of the things that make me cringe with reliability on the 6.7L.......while there are plenty of known quirks and issues with a 7.3L, how many cost >$10K to fix? Plus most of these guys still have like $20-30K in debt on these trucks and are facing a $10K+ bill to get it running again.......no thanks.
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  #52  
Old 07-08-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River19 View Post
where are you finding a 400hp stock 6.7L? They don't exist. Those rigs consistently put 330hp to the rear wheels. A relatively mild build on a 7.3L can match that in a reliable setup without head studs etc.

Heck you don't even really need wild injectors for 330rwhp from a 7.3L. Is it a dated platform, yup.....just making a simple point with regards to power.
The 7.3 was 250 or 270 HP flywheel HP.
The 6.7's were 400 hp, now 440 hp, with a much better transmission as well, to get the power to the ground.

I am familiar with 7.3's running maxed out at 320 RWHP, an that is not what I'd call a reliable truck. Much dollars and work needs to be pumped in, to make it reliable, at that power level. Otherwise, you're driving a smokey high EGT, transmission snapping toy.
The tuned 6.7's put down about 500 hp / 1000 TQ.

The original question in this thread, was basically would you buy a brand new 7.3 truck, or a 6.7 truck, same truck, different engines.
I don't think many people would choose the 7.3.
This sounds like the threads whining why the manual transmissions are disappearing, and as much as many of us like them, they just don't sell. If ford could sell more trucks putting one in, they'd be glad to make money off you, you know that.

So both trucks 100% stock, full warranty, the 7.3 is like 270 hp, and the 6.7 is 400 or 440 hp. Brand new trucks, all shiney and new.
Put a tuner, exhaust, intake on both, the 7.3 is up around 320 rwhp, the 6.7 around 500 rwhp. This is an un-win-able HP comparison.


If there was really a market for longevity, you'd see tunes to detune a 7.3 to the 210 hp navistar released it with, a 230 hp tune for the 6.0, and a 300 hp tune for the 6.4.

So now my point is, a 7.3 juiced to 6.7 power levels is not, IMHO as reliable, or capable. A 6.7 can make the power without smoke, boost problems, EGT issues, and transmissions crapping the bed, all while towing.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by River19 View Post

Again these are random but relatively representative of the things that make me cringe with reliability on the 6.7L.......while there are plenty of known quirks and issues with a 7.3L, how many cost >$10K to fix? Plus most of these guys still have like $20-30K in debt on these trucks and are facing a $10K+ bill to get it running again.......no thanks.
You would also be 20-30k$ in debt, if you bought a brand new 7.3, like the thread was talking about. And a brand new 7.3 engine would likely cost very close to the same price, although a few G's less because of the lack of emissions junk.
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  #54  
Old 07-08-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
You would also be 20-30k$ in debt, if you bought a brand new 7.3, like the thread was talking about. And a brand new 7.3 engine would likely cost very close to the same price, although a few G's less because of the lack of emissions junk.
I think we're splitting hairs here......

IMHO, 320-330 RWHP from a 7.3L can be built to a very reliable level, which is comparable with a stock 6.7L, which the jury on reliability is still way out at this point. Sure, slap a tuner and a bunch of other stuff on and sure the 6.7L will make more power......no doubt, hell it should it is 4 generations newer. Sure it is apples and oranges a bit.

If 320rwhp from a 7,3L has someone with a smokey high EGT rig they need to think about a new tuner or setup......just sayin'

Time machines notwithstanding, again, IMO if someone were to hand me a brandy new 6.7L today I would enjoy tooling around for a bit then promptly sell it for something with a known/better reliability history without the additional expenses of the emissions equipment, sensitivity to US fuel etc. Heck that may be a 6.2L with the same bells and whistles.....

But until someone does present that problem to me, I'll just fire up the 7.3L and pick up my friend at the dealer when his 6.7L is in for more "diagnostics"....lol

To each their own, you don't have to agree with me.........
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by River19 View Post
I think we're splitting hairs here......

IMHO, 320-330 RWHP from a 7.3L can be built to a very reliable level, which is comparable with a stock 6.7L, which the jury on reliability is still way out at this point.

Time machines notwithstanding, again, IMO if someone were to hand me a brandy new 6.7L today I would enjoy tooling around for a bit then promptly sell it for something with a known/better reliability history without the additional expenses of the emissions equipment, sensitivity to US fuel etc. Heck that may be a 6.2L with the same bells and whistles.....

But until someone does present that problem to me, I'll just fire up the 7.3L and pick up my friend at the dealer when his 6.7L is in for more "diagnostics"....lol

To each their own, you don't have to agree with me.........

It's not that I don't agree, it's just these are different engine, with different emission controls.
One thing that I do disagree on, is a 7.3 juiced to 6.7 power levels being reliable and as usable as a 6.7.

I didn't get rid of my 7.3 truck because it sucked, I got rid of it because of a requirement from work, age of vehicle exceeded.
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  #56  
Old 07-08-2014, 01:43 PM
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It's not that I don't agree, it's just these are different engine, with different emission controls. One thing that I do disagree on, is a 7.3 juiced to 6.7 power levels being reliable and as usable as a 6.7. I didn't get rid of my 7.3 truck because it sucked, I got rid of it because of a requirement from work, age of vehicle exceeded.
I wonder how long a 6.7 would last if it inhaled a bag of home brewed hydrogen? Tried it yet?
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:49 PM
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I wonder how long a 6.7 would last if it inhaled a bag of home brewed hydrogen? Tried it yet?
I keep asking guys that have a 6.7, if we could try it, but so far, no bites lol
The ol 7.3, I did love that thing, it was a good truck.
It's funny, you own a truck for long enough, you almost want to keep it, put it in the back yard or something, as a memento.
I need a bigger yard first.
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:18 PM
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It's funny, you own a truck for long enough, you almost want to keep it, put it in the back yard or something, as a memento.
I need a bigger yard first.
That's relatively normal in northern New England....they park the old rigs out back by their old school bus/shed.......

Not that there is anything wrong with that......
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
The 7.3 was 250 or 270 HP flywheel HP. The 6.7's were 400 hp, now 440 hp, with a much better transmission as well, to get the power to the ground. I am familiar with 7.3's running maxed out at 320 RWHP, an that is not what I'd call a reliable truck. Much dollars and work needs to be pumped in, to make it reliable, at that power level. Otherwise, you're driving a smokey high EGT, transmission snapping toy. The tuned 6.7's put down about 500 hp / 1000 TQ. The original question in this thread, was basically would you buy a brand new 7.3 truck, or a 6.7 truck, same truck, different engines. I don't think many people would choose the 7.3. This sounds like the threads whining why the manual transmissions are disappearing, and as much as many of us like them, they just don't sell. If ford could sell more trucks putting one in, they'd be glad to make money off you, you know that. So both trucks 100% stock, full warranty, the 7.3 is like 270 hp, and the 6.7 is 400 or 440 hp. Brand new trucks, all shiney and new. Put a tuner, exhaust, intake on both, the 7.3 is up around 320 rwhp, the 6.7 around 500 rwhp. This is an un-win-able HP comparison. If there was really a market for longevity, you'd see tunes to detune a 7.3 to the 210 hp navistar released it with, a 230 hp tune for the 6.0, and a 300 hp tune for the 6.4. So now my point is, a 7.3 juiced to 6.7 power levels is not, IMHO as reliable, or capable. A 6.7 can make the power without smoke, boost problems, EGT issues, and transmissions crapping the bed, all while towing.
This is a weird topic IMO. I like my 7.3. I drive an obs powerstroke with a 5 speed. It feels like a truck. My father in law has a 2012 psd. It doesn't. What would I buy. My old 7.3. Both motors have there downside but a 7.3 can stil be able to push that 325 rwh reliably and without major mods. An injector set, ic, tunes and a turbo and your good to go. I also prefer a manual. I drove truck and enjoyed shifting. The 6.7 doesn't offer it. I check out the 6.7 forum occasionally and they have there fair share of electrical and engine problems. The torque curve they have is very impressive and the creature comforts are nice but I still prefer my old truck. Also pop your head underneath a 6.7. If your wondering why there's no smoke you'll understand by the exhaust. It is massive and I'm sure with a similar system on an obs you could do the same thing, and don't forget to add def.
That being said I think this topic is in the wrong forum. Most people here have a 7.3 because they like the 7.3. They like having a truck that they can diagnose a problem with the aid of others on this forum instead of the answer "dealer should be able to get a code." The 6.7 is not a real easy motor to work on. Just pop the hood and you will see. I don't think you can see the valley or the heads from the top due to all the emissions stuff on top
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:23 PM
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To add one more option to the mix......

If had the option of a brand new 7.3 powered super duty, brand new 6.7 powered super duty or (gasp) a. Rand new 6.2 GAS super duty it would be the gasser all day for me. The 6.2 in my opinion is the 7.3 of the modern day. Close to the same power stock fuel mileage is slightly lower than the 7.3 but close enough and it is as or some may argue more dependable than an OG powered stroke.

When my Jenni rolls her last odo click in my possession chances are she will be replaced by a 6.2 powered super duty.
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:23 PM
 
 
 
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