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Anyone ever idle on soft, non paved surface... and then roll onto a paved road or driveway?
Or vice versa... idling over a hard surface, and then rolling onto softer, non paved ground, like a lawn or woodchip covered ground?
Do you notice the immediate difference in sound, where the hard ground reflects, reverberates, and seems to amplify the engine noise, while the softer ground sinks, absorbs, and attenuates the engine noise?
That's the same effect that the softer insulation under the transmission tunnel can contribute. Instead of the sound waves bouncing off the hard steel underbody of the cab, and echoing in that tunnel, they can instead be sunk and captured in the insulation... especially the part that is not covered in foil wrap.
It isn't much, but it takes a constellation of tiny improvements just to notice a small one.
Anyone ever idle on soft, non paved surface... and then roll onto a paved road or driveway?
Or vice versa... idling over a hard surface, and then rolling onto softer, non paved ground, like a lawn or woodchip covered ground?
Do you notice the immediate difference in sound, where the hard ground reflects, reverberates, and seems to amplify the engine noise, while the softer ground sinks, absorbs, and attenuates the engine noise?
That's the same effect that the softer insulation under the transmission tunnel can contribute. Instead of the sound waves bouncing off the hard steel underbody of the cab, they are sunk and captured in the insulation... especially the part that is not covered in foil wrap.
It isn't much, but it takes a constellation of tiny improvements just to notice a small one.
Yes, you are right. Something to think about doing in the future, and I'm adding this to my To do list. Should help with the drone down as well for some us that don't run a muffler, and straight thru exhaust system's as well. Definitely gonna take a look at this one.
Carlos, your visit reminded me that I wanted to show you my collection of matting installation tools.
I can't say these tools were hand made like yours, but they do handily serve the purposes you talked about earlier... like a hard steel roller...
....as well as a soft rubber roller like a skateboard wheel. This one has a gentle radius curve to it...
I obviously have a few other wooden and plastic wheels as well, including a couple different diameters of conically shaped tapered wheels...
But the most useful pressing tool has turned out to be a pair of cloth gloves, which make it easy to "burnish" the matting into the contours, as well as press out any trapped air bubbles.
The plastic rub sticks have been useful for pressing the mat down behind obstructions, like the side impact beams in the doors.
Carlos, your visit reminded me that I wanted to show you my collection of matting installation tools.
I can't say these tools were hand made like yours, but they do handily serve the purposes you talked about earlier... like a hard steel roller...
....as well as a soft rubber roller like a skateboard wheel. This one has a gentle radius curve to it...
I obviously have a few other wooden and plastic wheels as well, including a couple different diameters of conically shaped tapered wheels...
But the most useful pressing tool has turned out to be a pair of cloth gloves, which make it easy to "burnish" the matting into the contours, as well as press out any trapped air bubbles.
The plastic rub sticks have been useful for pressing the mat down behind obstructions, like the side impact beams in the doors.
Very nice collection sir. But where did you buy such nice rollers. I never bothered to search for a better made roller/tool. I just knew what I needed and made it. But right you are, pushing with your hands and the back of a screwdriver of different sizes is how I got into the crevices as well. When I installed the FatMat in the engine bay, I had it peel off several times, from the engine heat I imagine. So I got map gas bottle and while rolling and pressing into the corners and such, I applied heat as well. This took care of it and it never peeled off again.
After it was all said and done I dont think it made a huge difference from the drive seat from a sound perspective. I think removing the dash and over insulating the firewall with a really good material would have had more of a affect for the front section. With that said the rear sections are much, much quieter, huge difference there and the AC will freeze you out of the car. Did all the doors with same layers as the floor.
After it was all said and done I dont think it made a huge difference from the drive seat from a sound perspective. I think removing the dash and over insulating the firewall with a really good material would have had more of a affect for the front section. With that said the rear sections are much, much quieter, huge difference there and the AC will freeze you out of the car. Did all the doors with same layers as the floor.
Wow, I wish I would have know'n about this material back when I did my interior, I would have installed it over the FatMat on the floor and maybe the back too. Well the Luxury Materail is definitely something I'm gonna do on the floor, and then the material for the under hood as well. At the this point the possibilities are endless.
Anyone ever idle on soft, non paved surface... and then roll onto a paved road or driveway?
Or vice versa... idling over a hard surface, and then rolling onto softer, non paved ground, like a lawn or woodchip covered ground?
Do you notice the immediate difference in sound, where the hard ground reflects, reverberates, and seems to amplify the engine noise, while the softer ground sinks, absorbs, and attenuates the engine noise?
I re-read this and I re-membered something in the past: Snow. Stinky is crazy quiet in the snow (outside the truck and in). There is something about the height of the suspension and the harmonics of the truck that plays off the street to make it louder than any other diesel I've heard.
I've heard of people putting Rhino Liner on their valve covers to kill the cackle... I wonder how far we can go to alter the harmonics of the engine itself.
Tugly, the only difference in snow is the snow. And since the only part of the truck making contact with the snow is the tires (most of the time) would lead me to think tires are the issue. I know different tires vary greatly in the noise they make. Tire pressure, front tires cupping, also makes a difference. I can see that cab mounts could cause this too.
Tugly, the only difference in snow is the snow. And since the only part of the truck making contact with the snow is the tires (most of the time) would lead me to think tires are the issue. I know different tires vary greatly in the noise they make. Tire pressure, front tires cupping, also makes a difference. I can see that cab mounts could cause this too.
John, you make an excellent point about the contribution of tires to the overall noise level in the cab while driving, but there is a lot more of our trucks making contact with the snow than just tires.
We just can't see it all.
Sound waves.
Acoustics falls under the discipline of mechanical engineering, where the physical properties of sound waves are analyzed for control. And from what I can vaguely remember, the irregular surfaces and open crystalline structure of snow encapsulates and traps those sound waves better than smooth hard reflective surfaces like ice or asphalt.
My question in the previous post asked "Anyone ever idle on soft, non paved surface... and then roll onto a paved road or driveway? Or vice versa... idling over a hard surface, and then rolling onto softer, non paved ground, like a lawn or woodchip covered ground?"
To the extent that any hard surface in the engine compartment, on the firewall, or under the cab itself can be converted from hard reflective to soft absorbtive, it seems the conversion would have a contributory effect in reducing the sound waves that manage to make it up to our ears.
John, you make an excellent point about the contribution of tires to the overall noise level in the cab while driving, but there is a lot more of our trucks making contact with the snow than just tires.
We just can't see it all.
Sound waves.
Acoustics falls under the discipline of mechanical engineering, where the physical properties of sound waves are analyzed for control. And from what I can vaguely remember, the irregular surfaces and open crystalline structure of snow encapsulates and traps those sound waves better than smooth hard reflective surfaces like ice or asphalt.
My question in the previous post asked "Anyone ever idle on soft, non paved surface... and then roll onto a paved road or driveway? Or vice versa... idling over a hard surface, and then rolling onto softer, non paved ground, like a lawn or woodchip covered ground?"
To the extent that any hard surface in the engine compartment, on the firewall, or under the cab itself can be converted from hard reflective to soft absorbtive, it seems the conversion would have a contributory effect in reducing the sound waves that manage to make it up to our ears.
So, the snow eliminates the noise from the tires obviously, but the snow also deadens the other noises coming from the truck that would hit the road and bounce back up to the cab.
You know, I had my windows tinted a few years ago, and I'd swear that it help a little in making it quieter in the cab as well. I was told I was imagining things. But couldn't that thin layer of film help reduce the resonating?
You know, I had my windows tinted a few years ago, and I'd swear that it help a little in making it quieter in the cab as well. I was told I was imagining things. But couldn't that thin layer of film help reduce the resonating?
I don't think you were imagining things. The engineers at Ford probably wouldn't think so either.
I had 2008 Ford Escape with a V6, which was quieter than the 4 cylinder. In 2011, the '08 Escape got totaled, and it was replaced with a 2011 Escape with the louder 4 cylinder. But the 2011 Escape was quieter. Same body style. Approximately the same trim level. Same brand of tire. Same color even. Louder engine. Quieter car. The difference?
Ford sandwiched a layer of polyvinyl film, not unlike window tinting, without the tint, in the windshield. Ford had to give it a marketing moniker, so they called it SoundScreen.
I can genuinely report from first hand experience that it really does work quite effectively.
Here's what Ford has to say about SoundScreen:
"In evaluating the quality of our vehicles, our customers often consider cabin noise. Recently, we introduced the SoundScreen windshield to help reduce cabin noise levels and provide a more enjoyable driving experience.
SoundScreen Reduces Cabin Noise
During a road test measuring noise inside a 2008 Focus fitted with the SoundScreen windshield and sound-absorbent material, decibel levels were cut to 67 dB from 70 dB in the previous model (by comparison, 65 dB is the level that people typically speak at when seated around a conference table). With this reduction in road noise, drivers can easily talk to the passenger next to them or on the phone and they won’t have to turn up the stereo all the way.
With the new windshield and other sound-absorbing materials, the 2008 Mercury Mariner is 12 percent quieter on the highway and 20 percent quieter in high-velocity crosswinds than the 2007 model.
Developed by Carlite, the SoundScreen windshield debuted on the 2007 Ford Expedition and the Lincoln MKX and Navigator, and is also standard on the new 2008 Ford Escape and Focus, as well as the new 2008 Mercury Mariner.
A Quieter Windshield
The secret to the SoundScreen windshield is that it is built with a layer of sound-absorbent vinyl sandwiched between two sheets of glass.
This special acoustic vinyl layer helps soften noise levels inside the vehicle by as much as 6 dB in the frequency range where wind noise is most annoying and by 2 to 3 dB overall. And the special polyvinyl butyral (PVB) layer also helps cut the vibration noise stemming from the vehicle’s engine compartment.
Added Advantages
In addition to a quieter passenger cabin, the use of an acoustic windshield also offers the potential of weight savings.
For example, by using the new windshield material, the weight of a Navigator windshield could be trimmed by about seven pounds by using thinner glass. The acoustic glass can also be used for side and back windows and moonroofs, adding to more weight savings.
Vehicles with Acoustic Windshields
For the 2008 model year, Ford Escape, Ford Expedition, Ford Focus, Lincoln MKX, Lincoln Navigator and Mercury Mariner are equipped with an acoustic windshield.
For the 2009 model year, Ford Flex, Ford F-150 Platinum Edition and Lincoln MKS are slated to include acoustic windshields. More Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles will get the windshield in 2010.
On edit... in anticipation of the next question that comes to mind
"Is there a SoundScreen for the Super Duty?
The answer is YES. And only very recently so. Effective in the 2014 model year, the F-Series Super Duty now has a SoundScreen windscreen.
And trying to keep two steps ahead... the next auto follow question...
"What is the part number?"
F-SERIES SUPER DUTY- Windshield
2014
Carlite Part # DW02022 GTY
Ford Part # EC3Z 2503100 A
So, the snow eliminates the noise from the tires obviously, but the snow also deadens the other noises coming from the truck that would hit the road and bounce back up to the cab.
You know, I had my windows tinted a few years ago, and I'd swear that it help a little in making it quieter in the cab as well. I was told I was imagining things. But couldn't that thin layer of film help reduce the resonating?
Yes.
Glass is a great conductor of sound.
They even make doo dads that suckie cup to your windows that turn them into speakers. Soundpod Glass Speaker
So i can see how a layer of plastic film would sort of act like a 2 way mirror for sound.
The film would alter the resonance of the glass, with it's softer material and microscopically porous surface.
Tire noise: While I was referring to idling in the driveway, as well as the quieter engine on a snowy surface while driving - tire noise is a separate issue.
I just did something goofy this month: I had bad tires (soft-rubber all-season tires with serious cupping issues), so I tried going to the tire size recommended on the door - 235/85R16. Yes, they looked like pizza cutters... but I was shooting for less wear on the front tires - a very expensive experiment.
Wellll.... The tread was a tad too aggressive and I got tire noise, but nothing overwhelming. The problem was when I went to pass a car - Stinky's butt got all squirrely when I changed lanes and I can't imagine waiting for these tires to wear down before replacing. I took the truck back and swapped them out for the 265/75R16s I had before, with more of a street tread and a harder rubber. That quieted the truck down so much that I found my next noise - I think I need to check my slide pins.
While wandering around under the truck with a laser thermometer, I discovered the inside half of the tire tread is significantly hotter than the outside half. Could this have something to do with the way my truck eats front tires for a snack? I'm thinking close proximity to the manifolds and engine may be playing a role here, or maybe I have alignment issues. Stinky is parked until I resolve the last of my vibration issues, check on some fueling questions, service the slide pins, and have the front end aligned.
While some of this may sound a bit hijack-ish - my ears are guiding me to the issues listed above. While my cab with the Lariat package is pretty quiet, my focus on quieting the truck (not masking it with insulation or a stereo) has made Stinky sound like a sewing machine (as Dan V recently put it in a phone call, regarding his new tunes). When there is an interruption to the steady drone of a sewing machine, it gets my attention.
06-03-2014, 01:14 PM
Yes, you are right. Something to think about doing in the future, and I'm adding this to my To do list. Should help with the drone down as well for some us that don't run a muffler, and straight thru exhaust system's as well. Definitely gonna take a look at this one.
