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  #226  
Old 07-30-2014, 05:11 PM
YoGeorge YoGeorge is offline
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Originally Posted by RigTrash601 View Post
It amazes me that parts are equally as hard to find as the transmissions themselves, after doing a little digging, the US seems to be one of the only countries that Ford sells trucks that the manual isn't an option. Although a lot of the trucks they sell abroad are under powered as opposed to here, but.....I know the decision not to have manuals has to be a market based decision, but it seems part of it has to be reactions to government regs also?

I don't think government regs have anything to do with the demise of manual transmissions. We have larger vehicles with more powerful engines in the US because gas is so cheap, and it is a "right" rather than a privilege for everyone to have a driver's license. In Europe, the tests to get a driver's license are quite comprehensive where in the US all you have to do is steer and push the gas pedal or brakes at approximately the right time.

Americans eat, drink, text, and talk on cell phones while driving, and the roads are wider and cover greater distances, so paying attention to driving is not as important.

It is a different culture for sure,
George
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  #227  
Old 07-30-2014, 05:18 PM
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Do you really think that Americans are the only ones that eat, drink, text and talk on the phone while driving?
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  #228  
Old 07-30-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NotEnoughTrucks2014 View Post
Just to downshift slightly, (HaHa, ain't I funny!), back to the demise of the manual transmission.

Looks like even repair parts are not safe. Thought while I had my 86 F150 apart, I'd throw in a new clutch disc, even though there was no issues, (motor swap). Clutch friction materials are not available separately. They want you to buy the whole clutch kit. Found an obsolete OEM disc on Ebay. Better than throwing in a cheap Chinese kit.
That is because it is poor practice to replace only the friction disc....
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  #229  
Old 07-30-2014, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MisterCMK View Post
Do you really think that Americans are the only ones that eat, drink, text and talk on the phone while driving?
No, but I would maintain that we do it far more in the US--in part because we don't drive manual transmissions as much but also because of our culture which involves multitasking on the run. My 1991 BMW doesn't have cup holders whereas most American vehicles made in that year have them.

At least until recently, it is illegal to eat or drink while driving in the UK.

CDC Features - Distracted Driving in the United States and Europe

George
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  #230  
Old 07-30-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by YoGeorge View Post
I don't think government regs have anything to do with the demise of manual transmissions. We have larger vehicles with more powerful engines in the US because gas is so cheap, and it is a "right" rather than a privilege for everyone to have a driver's license. In Europe, the tests to get a driver's license are quite comprehensive where in the US all you have to do is steer and push the gas pedal or brakes at approximately the right time.

Americans eat, drink, text, and talk on cell phones while driving, and the roads are wider and cover greater distances, so paying attention to driving is not as important.

It is a different culture for sure,
George
Government regulations have a lot to do with it, actually.

Since the CAFE standards came to be in the 90's manufacturers have had to hit certain average expected fuel economies on units sold (among other things). This lead to a number of tactics to keep the fun stuff around. Some manufacturers would give you a huge rebate for buying a gas guzzler and an economy at the same time. Sometimes manufacturers would simply limit the number of gas guzzlers produced, pricing them at a premium, and raking in the dollars. Some would simply build and deliver at certain ratios... the next gas guzzler wouldn't be built until the average fuel economy on record was back up to non-fined levels.



As the average MPG standard increased and more regulations hit the books, this became impractical, and too obvious. We'll, one way to increase the expected fuel mileage of a vehicle is to have complete control over it and optimize it to complete the tests at the highest fuel efficiency possible... the manufacturer can never have complete control over a clutch and stick. Task 1 became to phase out the operator variation by statistically manipulating data in order to justify elimination of a desired option. Task 1 complete.
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  #231  
Old 07-30-2014, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasRebel View Post

................

As the average MPG standard increased and more regulations hit the books, this became impractical, and too obvious. We'll, one way to increase the expected fuel mileage of a vehicle is to have complete control over it and optimize it to complete the tests at the highest fuel efficiency possible... the manufacturer can never have complete control over a clutch and stick. Task 1 became to phase out the operator variation by statistically manipulating data in order to justify elimination of a desired option. Task 1 complete.
The mfr can have fairly complete control over a stick by installing an "upshift" light which is stupid but when it is forced during the test sequence, does give the best results. Also dumb stuff like forcing a Corvette to shift from 1st to 4th gear unless the throttle was really being pushed hard.

I agree that a CVT provides the optimum potential gas mileage so long as the "complete control" gains exceed losses from running the pressure pumps needed to keep the belt/chain tight.

Still, with small cars, sticks still do quite well (altho hybrids typically use CVT's). The 3 cyl Fiesta is available with a stick only and has the highest mpg of any car with over 120 hp...(45 mpg freeway). And aren't VW diesels stick-shift only? I know Euro mpg ratings involve steady speed mpg and a properly geared stick would do better in steady state mpg than an automatic running a pump...

George
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  #232  
Old 07-31-2014, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoGeorge View Post
The mfr can have fairly complete control over a stick by installing an "upshift" light which is stupid but when it is forced during the test sequence, does give the best results. Also dumb stuff like forcing a Corvette to shift from 1st to 4th gear unless the throttle was really being pushed hard.
George
My Challenger has the skip shift. It sucks. If i don't drive it hard, it forces a 1-4 shift which is completely useless unless im going down hill.
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  #233  
Old 08-01-2014, 07:36 PM
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my '02 Chevrolet had an upshift light. I ignored it completely, and can't even tell if you if it still worked when I sold the pickup. For some reason it always wanted me to upshift while engine braking.

I'm not sure about the VWs diesels though. I wouldn't doubt that they are stick-only as an automatic would add too much weight.

Most OTR trucks are going with automated transmissions these days, but so far scaling hasn't made those practical on light-duty pickups.

At work today somebody asked about the Nissan Forward Collision Avoidance, and we spent a while pondering and exploring how a vehicle (computer system) can react to something it cannot see... As we are all R&D engineers, we know better... So we found that it uses radar (reflections off of the ground?) underneath the vehicle immediately forward to identify a troubling situation ahead... so we all said, "What if you're behind a Corvette?" This lead to exploring all of the automated "safety" features that are going into vehicles now (lane maintaining assistance, stopping assistance, object detection, imminent collision detection, traction control, skid avoidance) and, as was explicitly stated in one of the articles, the only reason these cars don't drive themselves is liability.

I think people get too complacent with those features. Like a parent doing homework for a child. New drivers will never learn to steer out of a skid, parallel park, watch the road in front of you, pull over and take a nap... The car makes it so you don't have to...


...but automobile systems fail.
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  #234  
Old 08-01-2014, 11:23 PM
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My son told me that VW diesels definitely can be had with automatics. With a huge torque curve that they have, it makes sense that a decent automatic would work well...and certainly open up the market tremendously to people who want an auto.

In 2000, I had a 60+ mile round trip commute that got into stop and go driving a lot. I pulled my BMW out of commuter status (into garage queen status) and bought a 5 cyl Acura TL with an automatic and a great stereo. I went back to a stick after I retired from that job.

I have autocrossed and it's my definition of fun to throw around a well-balanced small car with a stick--I couldn't imagine doing that with an automatic. I had a Subaru Crosstrek as a loaner for a couple days, and the CVT was actually decent--and got killer gas mileage. And paddle shifters felt at least as good as manually shifting any traditional auto trans manually. One important factor is the gearing range that any trans provides--Chrysler/Fiat are doing 8(?) speed automatics in their smaller cars and Jeeps.

George
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  #235  
Old 08-11-2014, 02:16 PM
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I too dont like DD'ing a stick in the city traffic. I have the best of both worlds now. My 05 FX4 is an auto, but when I feel like driving I hop in my 94 GT with 5 speed.
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  #236  
Old 08-18-2014, 05:02 PM
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I think what happened was the autos got better at the same time the engine/trans management computers did, resulting in better mileage from a small V8/auto than a big V6/manual. The CAFE numbers then made the switch a no-brainer. Who wouldn't take the small V8/auto over a V6 almost as big with a manual? Having lived with my '07 V6 5-speed for almost 8 years now, I can assure you I would take the V8/auto. I like my truck fine and I got what wanted, just a base model for when I might need a pickup and as an emergency vehicle for when one of the others is in the shop, but now with the aluminum body and hi-power turbo engines, the new truck is looking mighty good.
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  #237  
Old 09-24-2014, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCMK View Post
Do you really think that Americans are the only ones that eat, drink, text and talk on the phone while driving?

No, I'm sure that this occurs in other countries, but not ALL countries.

In Germany, drivers are taught to avoid distractions. Small children are not allowed in the front seat and drinking a beverage while driving is totally verboden.

A German goes through more training for a drivers license than the US minimum for a pilots license.

I business traveled to Western Europe a lot in the early 2000's. I came out of a convenience store along the Autobahn one time with a cup of coffee to drink while sitting in the car before getting back on the road. While I was walking to the car with the cup, people were giving me dirty looks. They just don't do that there.

German cars didn't even come with cup holders until about the mid 90's, because the Germans consider such an accessory a safety hazard.
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  #238  
Old 09-24-2014, 10:38 AM
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Those well trained distrusting Europeans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBDiagMan View Post
No, I'm sure that this occurs in other countries, but not ALL countries.

In Germany, drivers are taught to avoid distractions. Small children are not allowed in the front seat and drinking a beverage while driving is totally verboden.

A German goes through more training for a drivers license than the US minimum for a pilots license.

I business traveled to Western Europe a lot in the early 2000's. I came out of a convenience store along the Autobahn one time with a cup of coffee to drink while sitting in the car before getting back on the road. While I was walking to the car with the cup, people were giving me dirty looks. They just don't do that there.

German cars didn't even come with cup holders until about the mid 90's, because the Germans consider such an accessory a safety hazard.
I was trained in Europe and training is way more extensive than in US/Canada, the tests are on traffic laws, nut just dumb questions on "from how many feet are you allowed to follow a vehicle with emergency lights on", or "in night driving how many feet on approach you need to turn your high beam off".
In Europe 95% of the cars are still stick so holding a drink is tricky, regardless of the number of cup holders present.
They will "look at you funny" just because you bread, they look at each other funny too, 1000's of years of distrust and wars every 5 years. Actually back in the 80's you could drink ONE beer WHILE driving! (drinking in public is not illegal there)
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  #239  
Old 09-30-2014, 10:15 PM
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you could do that in Texas, too.
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  #240  
Old 10-01-2014, 01:44 AM
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you could do that in Texas, too.
Yeah, as long as you don't mind your surroundings being the inside of a jail if caught.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:44 AM
 
 
 
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