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  #1  
Old 02-26-2014, 11:02 PM
lawdog1973 lawdog1973 is offline
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Po345 and 349

06 Expedition with less then 100 miles on engine rebuild. Fired it up it ran good but had the two codes above. After it ran a while it had issue accelerating. I checked connector on bank two crank position sensor it was ok so I replaced the sensor still had same codes. I then had the alternator tested it was good. After a while it would really stumble and sound like a freaking diesel so I replaced bank two cam phaser and vtc. Ugg still have the same codes still running like crap. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Ohh I took it to dealer they ran a basic code and told me I needed to replace the engine. When I asked the *** clown underwriter how they came to that conclusion off of a basic scan and two codes he really couldn't answer my question. Ugg not a trusty dealer right!
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2014, 11:04 PM
makuloco2000 makuloco2000 is offline
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Your timing is off been there done that sorry to say
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2014, 11:07 PM
lawdog1973 lawdog1973 is offline
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That's what a buddy said as we'll but I double and triple checked it. I am done with ford. Why would it run ok at cold temp bug once it's warm it runs like crap? If timing were off wouldn't it run bad all the time?
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:03 PM
alloro alloro is offline
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Yep, whoever installed the timing chains didn't line things up correctly.
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  #5  
Old 02-27-2014, 02:26 PM
lawdog1973 lawdog1973 is offline
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Why does it run worse after warm up? And thanks guys!
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:44 PM
alloro alloro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog1973 View Post
Why does it run worse after warm up? And thanks guys!
Parts expand, oil thins, coolant flows, sensors change signals sent to the ECM, etc.
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2014, 02:44 PM
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m-chan68 m-chan68 is offline
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Originally Posted by lawdog1973 View Post
I replaced bank two cam phaser and vtc. Ugg still have the same codes still running like crap.
Is that the VCT solenoid, or did you replace the whole valve body assembly which includes a new solenoid? Whenever I get into one of these, I always quote both phasers, both VCT valve body assemblies, timing chain tensioners, and guides if necessary. This is all to be topped off with an install of a new FL-820S oil filter and 5W20 oil. If I pull it apart, and find the engine sludged up, is when I stop there and tell the service advisor to modify the quote to an engine replace.

When you had the engine rebuilt, were all the timing drive parts re-used or were they replaced? WHERE did you source the rebuilt engine from? Was it re-filled with 5W20 and the proper FL-820S filter used? Are there any oil pressure issues with this engine at operating temperature?
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:25 AM
lawdog1973 lawdog1973 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
Is that the VCT solenoid, or did you replace the whole valve body assembly which includes a new solenoid? Whenever I get into one of these, I always quote both phasers, both VCT valve body assemblies, timing chain tensioners, and guides if necessary. This is all to be topped off with an install of a new FL-820S oil filter and 5W20 oil. If I pull it apart, and find the engine sludged up, is when I stop there and tell the service advisor to modify the quote to an engine replace.

When you had the engine rebuilt, were all the timing drive parts re-used or were they replaced? WHERE did you source the rebuilt engine from? Was it re-filled with 5W20 and the proper FL-820S filter used? Are there any oil pressure issues with this engine at operating temperature?
The engine had bad rings I bought to fix and flip but this thing is becoming a nightmare. The engine was the one that was in it. I had it done by a shop that has done 3-4 other engines with no issue until now. I am not sure what oil was put in it but I planned on changing it today. Are these engines that finicky that they abloutely need this exact oil? I was investigating this morning and found a broken vacuum line near the front bank 2 valve cover and I think the abs box. Any idea where it goes? Could that be the problem? I can email a pic of the broken line but for the life of me can't figure out how to post a pick on here from my phone or ipad

Clay
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2014, 12:09 PM
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m-chan68 m-chan68 is offline
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Originally Posted by lawdog1973 View Post
I was investigating this morning and found a broken vacuum line near the front bank 2 valve cover and I think the abs box. Any idea where it goes? Could that be the problem?
If it is a curved line, it is supposed to be like that. Post up a pic and I will confirm that for you.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:13 PM
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If it is a curved line, it is supposed to be like that. Post up a pic and I will confirm that for you.
For the life of me I can't figure out how to get a pic on here
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2014, 04:02 PM
lawdog1973 lawdog1973 is offline
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I know I'm grasping st straws but my bank 2 valve cover is leaking some serious oil could that be causingmy issues?
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:51 AM
makuloco2000 makuloco2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by lawdog1973 View Post
I know I'm grasping st straws but my bank 2 valve cover is leaking some serious oil could that be causingmy issues?
No it needs to be retimed. I know they check the timing before putting it back together but I have done the same. 8 years ago fresh out of tech school till 8 months ago never had a problem timing any engine no matter how complicated. These are not that complicated at all but I did a 4.6L 3v (same design) on and explorer 8 months ago and it was off by one tooth because the crank was not in the perfect location, as ford said once before the crank is the most important to have in the right place after that you cams can look off a bit from the timing picture and be fine as long as the crank is in the correct position and the links line up.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:01 AM
makuloco2000 makuloco2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog1973 View Post
I know I'm grasping st straws but my bank 2 valve cover is leaking some serious oil could that be causingmy issues?
Wait I thought this was rebuilt how is the valve cover leaking. I wonder if the dealer did an oil pressure test and found low oil pressure and then we recommend a new engine. Ford has lowered the spec to 15psi min hot engine. I don't like to see anything below 20-25psi but have seen vct operate properly on 15-16 psi so I guess Ford is correct I bet that is what the issue is. Do this from a cold engine then let is get hot again like when you were having the issue and tell me how it runs don't worry about the new check engine light it produces. This is a easy test ford engineers sent me awhile ago.

The DTC can also be set from erratic phaser operation. The PCM monitors the CMPs to control the phasers. If the phasers are erratic the CMP signal will be erratic and the PCM will think there is a CMP circuit issue. If PCM cannot accurately monitor the CMP sensors it will default the VCT system into open loop and the pids will read 0. To check the operation of the VCT system, recommend unplugging the VCT solenoids with the engine off and the key out of the ignition. This will pin lock the phasers. After the VCT solenoids are unplugged clear the DTCs and start the engine. If the DTCs do not return there is a VCT phasers issue. If the DTC do return, recommend overlay the CMP circuits and retest.

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  #14  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:53 PM
lawdog1973 lawdog1973 is offline
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Originally Posted by makuloco2000 View Post
Wait I thought this was rebuilt how is the valve cover leaking. I wonder if the dealer did an oil pressure test and found low oil pressure and then we recommend a new engine. Ford has lowered the spec to 15psi min hot engine. I don't like to see anything below 20-25psi but have seen vct operate properly on 15-16 psi so I guess Ford is correct I bet that is what the issue is. Do this from a cold engine then let is get hot again like when you were having the issue and tell me how it runs don't worry about the new check engine light it produces. This is a easy test ford engineers sent me awhile ago.

The DTC can also be set from erratic phaser operation. The PCM monitors the CMPs to control the phasers. If the phasers are erratic the CMP signal will be erratic and the PCM will think there is a CMP circuit issue. If PCM cannot accurately monitor the CMP sensors it will default the VCT system into open loop and the pids will read 0. To check the operation of the VCT system, recommend unplugging the VCT solenoids with the engine off and the key out of the ignition. This will pin lock the phasers. After the VCT solenoids are unplugged clear the DTCs and start the engine. If the DTCs do not return there is a VCT phasers issue. If the DTC do return, recommend overlay the CMP circuits and retest.

No the leak happened when the mechanic I had rebuild engine took valve cover off to replace phaser and vct. He must have pinched the gasket during reinstilation. I accidentally pulled the vacuum line that goes from the power booster to the rear of the engine and now I'm in no mood to mess with it anymore today. What all sm I going to have to pull to reinstall that vacuum line? I honestly can't even see where it goes.
I will never buy another ford this thing has been a mind blowing money pit!
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:25 PM
makuloco2000 makuloco2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog1973 View Post
No the leak happened when the mechanic I had rebuild engine took valve cover off to replace phaser and vct. He must have pinched the gasket during reinstilation. I accidentally pulled the vacuum line that goes from the power booster to the rear of the engine and now I'm in no mood to mess with it anymore today. What all sm I going to have to pull to reinstall that vacuum line? I honestly can't even see where it goes.
I will never buy another ford this thing has been a mind blowing money pit!
It goes way back and at the bottom of the intake and man is it a pain to do. There was a recall on them awhile back. It is easiest from underneath on a rack but is possible from the top if you pull the fuel rail. This being an expedition I would say there may be enough room but my bet is the firewall is just as close to the engine. I can send you a pdf to your email of the process with pictures on the f150 which should be the same on the expedition. Use this new part number and it will not fall off again- 6L3Z-9W431-A
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:25 PM
 
 
 
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