DFCM draining...
#136
02-25-2014, 05:10 PM
#137
02-25-2014, 06:21 PM
#138
02-25-2014, 06:32 PM
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OK Gents, It may look like I'm beating a dead horse here...I'm not.
We clearly know what each other thinks about the monthly draining, not trying to change anybody's mind...just calling it what it is..."Just the facts Jack"
You gotta list ALL the facts man. Holding back information isn't being forthcoming
You have to finish reading the sentence...starts with "OR" (see below picture). As far as Why wouldn't anybody take the time... Read the thread dude, that's what it's about.
Thanks for the document. My 2012 did not come with it.
However it gives the option of draining monthly OR when the "Water in Fuel Lamp" illuminates.
Monthly drainers are actually going by the book
...The guys that wait for the WIF light to come on before draining are also going by the book!
With that said, it's all up to the guy who owns the truck
We clearly know what each other thinks about the monthly draining, not trying to change anybody's mind...just calling it what it is..."Just the facts Jack"
You gotta list ALL the facts man. Holding back information isn't being forthcoming
You have to finish reading the sentence...starts with "OR" (see below picture). As far as Why wouldn't anybody take the time... Read the thread dude, that's what it's about.Thanks for the document. My 2012 did not come with it.
However it gives the option of draining monthly OR when the "Water in Fuel Lamp" illuminates.
Monthly drainers are actually going by the book
...The guys that wait for the WIF light to come on before draining are also going by the book! With that said, it's all up to the guy who owns the truck
#139
02-25-2014, 08:09 PM
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Nope, never felt bad just trying to contribute.
Gotta get all the info out there so we can hash it out and learn stuff. Stating half the sentence from a book makes little sense (not saying it was intentional)
kper05 brought up a good point...how do we interpret the "OR".
1. Do you "choose" one OR the other. (monthly or WIF)
2. Is it both (always do it monthly , or sooner if the WIF comes on)
We'll never know... haaaaaa haaaa
Gotta get all the info out there so we can hash it out and learn stuff. Stating half the sentence from a book makes little sense (not saying it was intentional)
kper05 brought up a good point...how do we interpret the "OR".
1. Do you "choose" one OR the other. (monthly or WIF)
2. Is it both (always do it monthly , or sooner if the WIF comes on)
We'll never know... haaaaaa haaaa
#140
02-25-2014, 08:23 PM
I take the programmer's approach to the 'OR' logic.
Truth table for an 'OR'
We are going to assert that the DFCM water separator bowl has been drained at least once in the lifetime of the vehicle.
Let 'A' be a test of the time since the last time the DFCM bowl was drained and whether that time is EQUAL or GREATER-THAN one month, AND;
Let 'B' be the threshold for the Water-in-Fuel sensor, with a logic high being above threshold.
So the question you ask is, Has 1 month or more elapsed since the last time the last time the DFCM bowl was drained? If the answer is true, then drain the DFCM as per the procedure outlined in the manual or standard operating procedure.
The next question you ask is, Is the Water-in-Fuel indicator triggered and in an illuminated state? If true, then drain the DFCM.
If it has been one month or more since the last time the DFCM has been drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is active, then drain the DFCM.
If it has not yet been one month since the last time the DFCM was drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is NOT active, then the DFCM does not need to be drained.
You can flowchart it, you can write up a Karnaugh map, you can do whatever, that is the outcome. You are testing for TWO conditions here, not testing for one or the other condition.
To me the wording is very clean cut.
Truth table for an 'OR'
Code:
A B | A OR B 0 0 | 0 0 1 | 1 1 0 | 1 1 1 | 1
We are going to assert that the DFCM water separator bowl has been drained at least once in the lifetime of the vehicle.
Let 'A' be a test of the time since the last time the DFCM bowl was drained and whether that time is EQUAL or GREATER-THAN one month, AND;
Let 'B' be the threshold for the Water-in-Fuel sensor, with a logic high being above threshold.
So the question you ask is, Has 1 month or more elapsed since the last time the last time the DFCM bowl was drained? If the answer is true, then drain the DFCM as per the procedure outlined in the manual or standard operating procedure.
The next question you ask is, Is the Water-in-Fuel indicator triggered and in an illuminated state? If true, then drain the DFCM.
If it has been one month or more since the last time the DFCM has been drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is active, then drain the DFCM.
If it has not yet been one month since the last time the DFCM was drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is NOT active, then the DFCM does not need to be drained.
You can flowchart it, you can write up a Karnaugh map, you can do whatever, that is the outcome. You are testing for TWO conditions here, not testing for one or the other condition.
To me the wording is very clean cut.
#141
02-25-2014, 09:13 PM
It doesn't really seem all that difficult. There is one word missing that would make that sentence so much more clear. Drain monthly or sooner if the light comes on. The regular interval is monthly. If the light comes on prior to the 30 day interval, obviously it would make sense to drain it then and not wait the full 30 days. I can't figure out why people refuse to do such an easy maintenance item just because they want to argue over the semantics of a single sentence. Well to those that hang their hat on the "OR", I only ask do you set aside money weekly or will you be able to pay the $12,000 lump sum? Some victories cost more than others!
#142
02-25-2014, 10:06 PM
Post Fiend
It doesn't really seem all that difficult. There is one word missing that would make that sentence so much more clear. Drain monthly or sooner if the light comes on. The regular interval is monthly. If the light comes on prior to the 30 day interval, obviously it would make sense to drain it then and not wait the full 30 days. I can't figure out why people refuse to do such an easy maintenance item just because they want to argue over the semantics of a single sentence. Well to those that hang their hat on the "OR", I only ask do you set aside money weekly or will you be able to pay the $12,000 lump sum? Some victories cost more than others!
So I will just wave!
Tim
#143
02-26-2014, 10:09 AM
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Great inventions, discoveries and breakthroughs didn't come from sheep
(easy now...not calling anyone a sheep).
I'm glad there are people that ask questions. I'm an A&P mechanic and constantly update maintenance and operation manuals. The publications are intentionally not bound so we can remove and replace pages. Examples of updates are...
1. Procedure clarification or improvement
2. Addition of PM action and/or interval
3. Removal of PM (Many PM's were found to be unnecessary, performing them only caused parts fatigue).
4. Spelling and grammer
Nothing gets changed by following the herd. At this point I personally don't give a rats behind on who does what. My thoughts are on taking the gray out of the "semantics of a single sentence" especially
when that sentence is written by the OEM who decides who pays a potential $12K price tag.
I Follow OEM manuals religeously, Because of the dialogue in this thread and kper05 sparking the thought to question the interpretation of the manuel I am going to do a 180 and start draining my DFCM once a month unless I see an OEM clarification to do otherwise. .
#144
02-26-2014, 10:24 AM
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#146
02-26-2014, 05:24 PM
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I can help Matt...It's because all people don't think or rationalize the same as you or I or the guy down the road. We have different experience and opinions. Been this way since the cave man. haaa haa
Great inventions, discoveries and breakthroughs didn't come from sheep (easy now...not calling anyone a sheep).
I'm glad there are people that ask questions. I'm an A&P mechanic and constantly update maintenance and operation manuals. The publications are intentionally not bound so we can remove and replace pages. Examples of updates are...
1. Procedure clarification or improvement
2. Addition of PM action and/or interval
3. Removal of PM (Many PM's were found to be unnecessary, performing them only caused parts fatigue).
4. Spelling and grammer
Nothing gets changed by following the herd. At this point I personally don't give a rats behind on who does what. My thoughts are on taking the gray out of the "semantics of a single sentence" especially
when that sentence is written by the OEM who decides who pays a potential $12K price tag.
I Follow OEM manuals religeously, Because of the dialogue in this thread and kper05 sparking the thought to question the interpretation of the manuel I am going to do a 180 and start draining my DFCM once a month unless I see an OEM clarification to do otherwise. .
Great inventions, discoveries and breakthroughs didn't come from sheep
(easy now...not calling anyone a sheep).I'm glad there are people that ask questions. I'm an A&P mechanic and constantly update maintenance and operation manuals. The publications are intentionally not bound so we can remove and replace pages. Examples of updates are...
1. Procedure clarification or improvement
2. Addition of PM action and/or interval
3. Removal of PM (Many PM's were found to be unnecessary, performing them only caused parts fatigue).
4. Spelling and grammer
Nothing gets changed by following the herd. At this point I personally don't give a rats behind on who does what. My thoughts are on taking the gray out of the "semantics of a single sentence" especially
when that sentence is written by the OEM who decides who pays a potential $12K price tag.
I Follow OEM manuals religeously, Because of the dialogue in this thread and kper05 sparking the thought to question the interpretation of the manuel I am going to do a 180 and start draining my DFCM once a month unless I see an OEM clarification to do otherwise. .
Obviously, I'm not a member of the "Phil Herd."
#148
02-26-2014, 09:01 PM
Posting Guru
Fair enough, I see that intent now ... Do it regularly when the truck doesn't complain and also ASAP whenever the truck complains 
Rinse, repeat
A bit off topic (which is funny given the path this thread has taken) I think the drain is also damn handy for grabbing some campfire starter fluid whenever needed
Rinse, repeat
A bit off topic (which is funny given the path this thread has taken) I think the drain is also damn handy for grabbing some campfire starter fluid whenever needed
#149
02-26-2014, 09:32 PM
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#150
02-26-2014, 09:37 PM
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I take the programmer's approach to the 'OR' logic.
Truth table for an 'OR'
We are going to assert that the DFCM water separator bowl has been drained at least once in the lifetime of the vehicle.
Let 'A' be a test of the time since the last time the DFCM bowl was drained and whether that time is EQUAL or GREATER-THAN one month, AND;
Let 'B' be the threshold for the Water-in-Fuel sensor, with a logic high being above threshold.
So the question you ask is, Has 1 month or more elapsed since the last time the last time the DFCM bowl was drained? If the answer is true, then drain the DFCM as per the procedure outlined in the manual or standard operating procedure.
The next question you ask is, Is the Water-in-Fuel indicator triggered and in an illuminated state? If true, then drain the DFCM.
If it has been one month or more since the last time the DFCM has been drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is active, then drain the DFCM.
If it has not yet been one month since the last time the DFCM was drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is NOT active, then the DFCM does not need to be drained.
You can flowchart it, you can write up a Karnaugh map, you can do whatever, that is the outcome. You are testing for TWO conditions here, not testing for one or the other condition.
To me the wording is very clean cut.
Truth table for an 'OR'
Code:
A B | A OR B 0 0 | 0 0 1 | 1 1 0 | 1 1 1 | 1
We are going to assert that the DFCM water separator bowl has been drained at least once in the lifetime of the vehicle.
Let 'A' be a test of the time since the last time the DFCM bowl was drained and whether that time is EQUAL or GREATER-THAN one month, AND;
Let 'B' be the threshold for the Water-in-Fuel sensor, with a logic high being above threshold.
So the question you ask is, Has 1 month or more elapsed since the last time the last time the DFCM bowl was drained? If the answer is true, then drain the DFCM as per the procedure outlined in the manual or standard operating procedure.
The next question you ask is, Is the Water-in-Fuel indicator triggered and in an illuminated state? If true, then drain the DFCM.
If it has been one month or more since the last time the DFCM has been drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is active, then drain the DFCM.
If it has not yet been one month since the last time the DFCM was drained AND the Water-in-Fuel indicator is NOT active, then the DFCM does not need to be drained.
You can flowchart it, you can write up a Karnaugh map, you can do whatever, that is the outcome. You are testing for TWO conditions here, not testing for one or the other condition.
To me the wording is very clean cut.
1972 advanced Electronics and Computer Maintenance School .....US Navy Millington TN. I was an instructor for 2 years.
Boolean Algebra....or Logic