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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

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Old 01-23-2014, 04:56 PM
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Any Internet Metallurgy Experts Here?

Been brainstorming some ideas for my next (Ok one of many many next projects) any way this would involve some machining and then welding on or to a rear axle hub assembly/assemblies , like the one pictured below.
Anyone know if those hubs are cast steel or malleable iron casting/ or other? I don’t have these hubs in my possession but can if I need them, just didn’t want to pick them up yet if I was wasting my time.

Thanks for any idea’s and your thoughts on this/ I have been told welding steel plate etc to cast steel should be just fine, may just need to preheat the material?
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:40 PM
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I'm pretty sure they are cast iron material like a drum or rotor. They aren't an overly hard material.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:14 PM
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What are you planning? The drums sure look like a high quality machined casting to me. Cast iron can be welded if you know what you are doing. Easier to do is brazing, but not as strong. If machining is involved you might be able to machine on the hub and make up mating parts so the hub doesn't need welding.

You can "spark test" most iron parts to get a rough idea of the type of material you are dealing with:
Spark testing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Spark testing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:40 PM
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Im hoping that its a high grade steel casting. I'm hoping I can get an 8 lug hub (F-2 F-3) and a 5 lug hub (F-4--F-6) and machine them down and add (weld) a spacer tube inbetween to create an wheel adapter/spacer for my f3 MH to get the big 5 lug wheels on the back.
I know I can just have something fabricated from scratch or made from billet possibly but was just thinking of other possibilties and or possible $savings ?

here are pictures that Stu had posted of his adapters.

after looking at the pictures again maybe it would just be easier to make them with the flat plate and weld em up. however if this wasn't as much machining maybe it could save time if I had the hubs on hand?
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:48 PM
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I think it would be real hard to weld something up and maintain the faces parallel. They could be machined afterwards but I'd bet you will be into it for mega-bucks ...
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:48 PM
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Josh, I have to run to the courthouse early next week so I will swing back into that machine shop who is looking at making my spacers and see what the deal is. I will keep you posted as to what I find out.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:50 PM
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Build them and true them up by bolting them onto your rear axle and use an angle grinder clamped into a fixture to face them off. Your truck is a 4 speed lathe. I've done a couple projects that way. It really works, and costs nothing. Way more fun than writing a check to a machine shop. Tires, particularly large bias ply truck tires arent even close to round, so why get so hung up on the metal part? I did 70 mph for a couple hours on interstate 5 on Tuesday in my '59 tonner with front hub adapters made pretty much that way. It has been hauling loads for 2 years now. What is the top speed of your M-H?. What I'm getting at is really like your idea.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:17 AM
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Lightbulb

Just make sure that your welds are ready for their close-up Internet photographical analysis.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:54 AM
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If you got a set of hubs from a 42-47 one ton axle with that bolt pattern would you still need spacers to get the wheels over the drums?

I have a complete 47 1 ton axle with the hubs that have the odd 5 lug bolt pattern. I'd gladly trade the hubs for an equal condition set of 8 lug hubs that would fit my truck.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Horvaths View Post
Just make sure that your welds are ready for their close-up Internet photographical analysis.
Ill make sure to get some good panoramic shots for the analysis if I get that far along!

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Originally Posted by 38 coupe View Post
If you got a set of hubs from a 42-47 one ton axle with that bolt pattern would you still need spacers to get the wheels over the drums?

I have a complete 47 1 ton axle with the hubs that have the odd 5 lug bolt pattern. I'd gladly trade the hubs for an equal condition set of 8 lug hubs that would fit my truck.
If you mean can I just swap the 8 lug hub for a 5 lug one? I am not sure if the axle tubes are the same size, bearings etc/ I need to look in the manual for the size and specs of each respective axle's. but even if the bigger 1 ton and up hub fit the drum then I would have to use all of the larger truck brakes, backing plates, drums etc. hmm I wonder if that would work?

only thing I'm not sure on with this scenario would be wheel offset or the track line for the rear tires if it would match up with the front track ? Stu probably knows these dimensons right off the top of his head, I would need to go measure the width of the axles I guess.

the hubs that are pictured above are waiting at a junk yard for $25 , I figured I could use any 8 lug hub but found one that looked older than the rest so not even 100% sure what it had come out of.
I spent 45 minutes pulling them off then realized that my idea may have been flawed so changed my mind and left them siting there.

I plan on going back to get them next week so I can determine with a local machinist if they are weldable doing what I want to do. still looking for a set of the larger 5 lug hubs. (cant tell you how many of those I've probably scrapped )



I think I know where some 48-50 F-2 f-3 axles are if I can catch up with the fellow I can probably come up with a set of those hubs if your still looking down the road a bit.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:28 AM
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The bolt pattern of a '47 and earlier tonner is 5 lug x 6 7/8" circle. Josh needs 5 x 8" which the F-4/5/6 or earlier 1.5 ton drums would provide. Gary's point is well made. Top speed would be maybe 45, and old 17" or even 19.5" bias ply traction tires won't be very well balanced or give a comfortable ride. Stu
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:43 AM
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Ah. For some reason I thought the 5 X 6 7/8 is what you needed. Oh well.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckdog62563 View Post
The bolt pattern of a '47 and earlier tonner is 5 lug x 6 7/8" circle. Josh needs 5 x 8" which the F-4/5/6 or earlier 1.5 ton drums would provide. Gary's point is well made. Top speed would be maybe 45, and old 17" or even 19.5" bias ply traction tires won't be very well balanced or give a comfortable ride. Stu
Thanks Stu, I assumed the earlier 1 ton had the same 5 on 8 Bolt circle as the 1.5 tons> so those hubs will do me no good.
I'm sure I can scare up a set of f-5 f-6 rear hubs around here, even if it requires buying a complete truck!!! heaven forbid.
I know where too many of these beasts are so I need to exorcise some restraint...
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38 coupe View Post
Ah. For some reason I thought the 5 X 6 7/8 is what you needed. Oh well.
Just to put a slightly different spin on this for Josh, M-H used up their supply of '47 and earlier tonner rear axles long after Ford had switched to the 8 x 6.5" pattern. My 1950 F-3 M-H has one of these with a different set of spacers. A couple of years ago Mark (thundersnow70) talked to the WY M-H collector and was told he might have a set of these he'd part with. You might text Mark to get his impression of the conversation. Couldn't hurt to check. He doesn't sell complete vehicles, but might sell parts. Stu

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Old 01-26-2014, 02:41 PM
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You can weld cast Iron to cast steel or even steel of any carbon content easily with Nickel rod. I do it all the time at work on old Indian motorcycle frames. Most likely, those hubs are cast steel. If they are, 7018 rod and a preheat would be the way I would go. But if they are cast iron, I'd definitely go with a Nickel rod. Nickel 99 is a good all around rod for welding cast iron to most any ferrous metal.
Spark or drill testing will tell you whether it is Iron or Steel.



Here's a video that will explain it faster than I could. He's a bit annoying, but not too far off the mark on most of his assertions.

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Old 01-26-2014, 02:41 PM
 
 
 
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