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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

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  #1  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:24 AM
Frozen_Joker Frozen_Joker is offline
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Clutch pedal to the floor...

I am not the most amazing with diagnosing these clutch problems.

I have a 96 F250 with the 7.5L and the ZF5. I bought the truck and it had a pedal to the floor issue. I replaced the master and slave cylinders and it worked just above mediocre. Still has a shifting problem. I replaced the slave again cause the clip broke that holds it to the transmission. It engages before going to the floor but I still have to pull it back up by foot from the halfway mark. While its running and sitting still its very very hard to put it in gear. It also starts going if I am not holding the brake while pushing the clutch in. So...I have figured out that the clutch is still engaged with the clutch in. It also shifts absolutely fine when the truck is off if that makes a difference. Clutch does the same thing, but it goes into gears smoothly.

I am gonna go ahead and replace the clutch cause of this odd wear on it. Is it possible that the throwout bearing is the problem here? Also, when I had the slave cyl out I could wiggle the clutch fork quite a bit. Is this normal? Any help is great.

And yes I have bled it properly, several times. There is absolutely no air in the system.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:09 AM
Frozen_Joker Frozen_Joker is offline
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I am gonna go out and bleed it yet again just to make sure there is absolutely no air in it.

It just seems like the clutch is still engaged with the pedal pushed in all the way.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:37 PM
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This is why I hate hydraulic clutches. I've done a few rangers, and the only way to get all of the air out is to pull the whole system (master, line, slave) and bench bleed it. Those had a plastic line though. My old Probe GT had a steel line, and I had to use one of those vacuum pumps, and a lot of patience. Good luck.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:15 PM
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You said the fork had a lot of play? Do you mean like up and down play? Depending on how many miles are on the clutch, and I really can't remember if the fork had a rod to pivot on or if it sits on a ball to pivot but if it's the ball then it's probably worn out and this can cause the slave not to be able to push the fork far enough to fully engage the truck. If it is just air in the system though,Try depressing the clutch pedal about half way down and leaving it sit over night like that. The pressure on the fluid should push the air back through the master cylinder vent. But IMO, if the clutch is wearing funny it's probably the pivot point on the fork is bad.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:48 PM
Frozen_Joker Frozen_Joker is offline
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It is the plastic line. Which is like 90 new. So I ripped one off at the junkyard instead for $3. The guy I bought the truck from threw all the parts away. -_- So I had to start fresh. I am also gonna do a clutch replacement anyway. There is a full circle of play Mike1. Its the type that has a bar to press against like a pivot.

I will take it off and blench bleed it again. Then go to a clutch kit replacement.
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen_Joker View Post
It is the plastic line. Which is like 90 new. So I ripped one off at the junkyard instead for $3.
Annnd only available at the dealership... I bought one for my old Ranger, should have gone that route!
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:15 PM
joey2fords joey2fords is offline
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get down under your dash and look up at the clutch/brake pedal bracket. check for play in the bushings and at the control arm where it connects to the master cylinder push rod. this is a common problem with these trucks as they get older and the symptoms you are describing point directly to it. when you depress the clutch pedal it should actuate the puch rod with virtually zero play.

there is likely nothing wrong with your pressure plate or friction disk. clutch wear usually shows up as slippage, not early grabbage and/or difficulty with dis-engaging.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:17 PM
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joey2fords is on the right track.
If the pedal goes over center and the spring does not return it, the two things he points out need attention.
While you're at it check the firewall for flexing or tears.

Have someone step on the clutch while you watch the master cylinder for movement.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:14 PM
Frozen_Joker Frozen_Joker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2fords
there is likely nothing wrong with your pressure plate or friction disk. clutch wear usually shows up as slippage, not early grabbage and/or difficulty with dis-engaging.
That is what I thought.

I checked for flex in the firewall and there is none. There is a quite a bit of play at the bar from where the clutch pedal meets the Master rod. Maybe my issue is the pedal assembly itself too?

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Originally Posted by Monteg0
Annnd only available at the dealership... I bought one for my old Ranger, should have gone that route!
Mine are available at the auto parts store, but its an order part.


I will try to get some pictures up tomorrow when I get a chance to mess around with it again.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:32 AM
Mike1 Mike1 is offline
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Isn't the master cylinder rod adjustable on this, to take the slack up on the pedal? There should be a threaded area on the rod closest to the pedal and a lock nut.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:50 AM
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Maybe in the aftermarket.
Pretty sure there's no nut on masters that use the clip on style interlock switch.
This comes up as Dorman for a 1996 F250.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2fords View Post
get down under your dash and look up at the clutch/brake pedal bracket. check for play in the bushings and at the control arm where it connects to the master cylinder push rod. this is a common problem with these trucks as they get older and the symptoms you are describing point directly to it. when you depress the clutch pedal it should actuate the push rod with virtually zero play.
This could definitely be your problem - it certainly was an issue with mine when I bought it. In fact, the PO had replaced the solenoid and starter with no luck solving his intermittent starter problem....which was caused by the arm on the clutch shaft being worn, loose and at the wrong angle. The clutch could not be depressed enough to reliably trigger the safety switch on the starter circuit because of the worn out linkage on the pedal.

I got a replacement arm from LMC and issue solved. BTW, also got him to come down on the price because of the issue he couldn't fix...
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:33 PM
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I was thinking it was more like this:

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Old 02-06-2014, 01:02 PM
joey2fords joey2fords is offline
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that's what we're talking about.
when my clutch started getting difficult i went out and bought a master/slave . luckily, before i went to the trouble of installing it, i read about the worn bushing syndrome. sure enough, this was my problem.
take special note of the condition of the little pivot on the end of that control arm ... if it has been metal-to-metal with the clutch master push rod, it will be badly chewed, and replacing the little plastic bushing will end up being a VERY short-term fix.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:09 PM
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Short term, like the first time you step on the pedal you hear a 'crack' and the chunks of plastic fall on the floor.
BTDT.
I epoxied a brass bushing onto mine.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:09 PM
 
 
 
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