Ok, so my trusty 96 f150 finally died last month and I had to replace it quickly. I purchased a 1997 f350 cab and chassis with a 12 foot box on it with only 70xxx miles on it. It has a 460 gas motor, e4od trans and f5 (4:10) rear axle. I'm a contractor and I pull a 7k lb trailer plus materials in the 12 foot box (worst case loading). I get 5.5 to 8 mpg depending upon load and towing. I've been looking at a 97 f450 7.3 turbo diesel 5 speed to get instead because I was thinking the diesel would get better mpg. However, the f450 has a 4:88 rear and everything I've read says the mpg won't be much better than I'm getting now. Plus, the f450 has 199xxx miles on it, which I know is not a lot for the engine, but is for the rest of the vehicle. With me being in a vehicle with such low miles, and with diesel fuel being so much more expensive than gas, I'd need to consistently get 15+ mpg to make a vehicle switch make sense. I really don't need a diesel as I don't tow excessive weight, I'm just looking to save $$ at the pump. That said, I like the z-f5 trans way better than the e4od for longevity.I guess I'm trying to see if I should just stay put in the truck I have and try to make some mpg improving upgrades or look for something else...maybe an f350 diesel with a 5 speed and 4:10 rear? What do you guys think?

 

Welcome to fte! If you don't need a diesel and are looking to save money at the pump then I would look at either a v10 or 5.4. They will get much better mpgs than the 460 and just as reliable or more so than the diesel. I owned a 7.3 and 5.4 at the same time and while the 7.3 got better mpgs, the higher cost of fuel offset the savings in mpgs. I liked the 7.3, but I liked the 5.4 better.

 

You're very unlikely to get 15+ MPG but I would suggest you look up the truck, work and posts by FORDF250HDXLT Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: FORDF250HDXLT By doing the right things with the right diesel truck they can be VERY cost effective.

 

I suggest that you keep the gasser.
IMO, diesel will continue to rise in price more than gas.
Look around the world. Diesel is the new/newer/newest thing (because it can be good) and as demand rises so will the price.
Gas prices may drop more and diesel prices will rise more.

 

I have to disagree with that, around the world yes, but not in the US. Here we have ever more restrictive laws on diesels that will make them less common in the US then anywhere else in the world. Prices in that regard are not set on a world market, only crude is set on a world market. Prices at the pump have much more to do with the local refineries.

So as diesels become harder to own due to regulation, diesel like fuels like kerosene, heating oil, etc become less popular, biodiesel becomes more available, and jets become more fuel efficient diesel will get cheaper.

 

Diesel vehicles are getting more popular. More diesel cars, half tons are coming out in diesel. Biodiesel has been pretty much dead for years, 5 years ago we had a couple stations that sold it. Haven't seen any available since then.

 

Almost all, if not all of the pump diesel around here contains 5% biodiesel and that number will climb with regulation. Cars and pickups yes diesel use is climbing but in the medium duty commercial world regulation is killing it.

 

"Prices at the pump have much more to do with the local refineries."
There are no local refineries around here. Our prices jump up and down like everywhere else. You need to look at the big picture.
The people who set prices don't care about regions. They look at the big picture and how they can make the most money.
I've been buying gas for 35 years.
You know what?
It's a game they play because they have small dicks.

 

Everyone has a local refinery or two, where do you think your fuel comes from?

They make the most money by selling the most fuel, they sell the most fuel by being cheaper.

It's not a giant conspiracy against the world by people with small dicks as you put it. The only "conspiracy" is in the regulation and a little in the crude market, not the prices at the pump.

 

Diesel is expensive in the US because of punitive taxes and an out-of-control EPA, not because of increased worldwide demand. Diesel has historically and should still be less expensive than gasoline. It takes far less refining and is therefore cheaper to create diesel. That said, can we get back to my original question. I'm looking for some advice.

 

Too many factors, do you do your own work, are you good a it, do prefer the older fords, how much truck do you really need, budget, etc.

You didn't mention the cost and condition of the 97 F450.

In general though for what it sounds like your demands are a diesel is the only clear choice.

 

You're right, there are many factors I did not include. I'll address the ones mentioned. I do my own work, and I'm fairly competent. If I don't know how to do something, I just need directions to be able to do it. I always buy a Haynes or Chilton repair manual for every vehicle I own, and the Internet in my best friend when I'm having trouble with a repair. That said, I've never owned a diesel and know very little about them, so there'd be a learning curve there. I do like the older fords, but I'm not stuck on them. I've been driving an f150 for the past 3.5 years and it served me well, but it was technically overloaded when I was towing my trailer...heck I towed a fully loaded 10k dump trailer with it a bunch of times. Looking at past demands I put on my truck, I'd say I should be in a 350, which is why I bought my current truck. My budget is currently $4k. I only paid $3500 for my box truck...another reason I bought it.

As for the f450, I have only looked at pictures of it, but it seems to be in good condition, but like I said, the personal experiences I've read about diesel 450s with the 4.88 rear tell me the mpg is going to be 8ish, which will cost me more at the pump than I'm paying now.

 

Iv owned a 460 and a 7.3L myself. Loved both of em! In all honesty, the 7.3 was quite the slouch. Even when your putting your foot in it, it takes it forever to get going. The 460 was on the other end of the spectrum. Gobs of power down low, and lacking up high. Perfect "around towner".

The 460 got crap for fuel mileage but it was a blast to drive. Made a ton of power. The 7.3L made good power but the price of diesel sucks for the fuel savings. Heck, stock vs stock, the 7.3L only got 3.5 mpg better than my 460. Woo... But the 7.3L has a TON of aftermarket, whereas the 460 has virtually nothing.

If I were you and tow a heavy load often, Id buy the 7.3L, swap out the rear axle to a 4.10, slap on a 6637 intake and a 3" downpipe with a 4" exhaust, and let er rip. My fuel mileage went from about 15 to 19 doing the intake and exhaust and made way more power. You WILL pay more for the diesel truck, more for the parts, more per gallon of fuel, and more for mainteneance, BUT you will have a reliable, powerful truck too. If you are looking to buy a powerful truck for cheap, the 460s hard to beat

 

I've had several 460 powered vehicles and am still of the opinion that for a gasoline powered truck that is still DIY capable, you cannot beat that engine. As far as the 7.3 - not owned one, but have talked to lovers and haters. Now, speaking of the price for fuel. We just did a 4000 mile round trip with the family car. The gas was as low as $2.95/gallon. Diesel was never cheaper then $3.89 anywhere in the 14 states we went through. As far as 460 gas mileage, the best I had was a carbed '76 F250 which would get up to 14mpg, but the rear axle ratio was, if I recall, 3.25 or thereabouts. The worst, an EFI F350 at about 10-11 empty with 4.10 rear gears. It takes a LOT of miles for payback for the added cost of diesel fuel plus the higher maintenance expense - more oil, more expensive filters, expensive fuel injectors if needed, two batteries vs one and so on. Yep, I now have a diesel, a 6.7, but I also have a heavy camper. There is very little I can DIY puttering on. If a 460 was still offered, might consider that instead.

 

Your previous was an F150, wow big jump in truck, a whole other world. Is this truck going to also be your daily driver, go getter? Will a pickup suffice as long as it can pull your trailer?

The diesel thing, vs 460 thing. I currently own 2 460s and a 7.3 diesel and the diesel is my daily, BUT it's NOT a powerstroke. All of these guys when they say 7.3 they refer to powerstrokes. Powerstrokes are nice and all if you can afford them, the trucks are expensive, the maintenance is crucial, and a serious breakdown can total your truck and put you in the poor house. Mine is pre-powerstroke, before 94.5, this is what I recommend if you need a low cost truck to really work and drive every day. They don't make big power stock, but that can be dealt with. What they do do is go, go, go, and go some more, hugely reliable, last forever and cheap to buy, own, and fix.

This is why I recommended in my first post that you look at FORDF250HDXLT, it sounds like his truck is pretty close to what you need, and you can learn a lot from his work. Yes his is a F250, but he converted it to dually and it's based on a 250 so he can get 4wd and a lower stance, can't do that with a 350. He hauls heavy all the time and averages over 14MPG with a pre-powerstroke IDI 7.3.

WOW took a look at CL in Richmond, lot's of great trucks around there.
92 F-350 dually diesel
94 ford 7.3 turbo diesel 5 speed 4x4 4 dr cab
F-250 Diesel Pickup
http://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/4206687625.html
http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/4253826505.html

And if you think it's time to step up to a box van, a few of those two. But it sounds like a pickup and trailer is more your style.