I recently installed some P.I.S. 200/80's, 38r + Wicked Wheel 2, Comp 910 valve springs shimmed .015, FRx, HPx, Turbo Master WG, blah, blah, blah...

In reading this and other forums and talking to vendors, I believed this was a good set up to daily drive, tow 10-12k and occasionally let it rip. Well after playing musical sticks, blowing the budget and logging with AE, Im at a loss.

Before the build I had the stock turbo, Banks wheel, Banks Bighead and housing and DP Tunes. Although I had to drive by the pyro, Never thought egts were high unless I was trying to build boost under 2k rpms, even then they'd only get to 1300* briefly.

Now, I can't do WOT 10-50mph without seeing 1350 instantly while unloaded. While towing 9K toyhauler I was seeing egts between 1000-1250* while babying it. One particular grade on Interstate 40 in Needles, CA is 7-8 miles of 4-6% grade. In the old configuration, I could hold 60+ mph at the top, but with this set up I had to drop to 2nd gear and crested at 45 mph @ 1250* egt.

Sorry for the long read. I'm just gonna add some bullet points...

Towing mileage dropped from 11 to 8 mpg with same driving habits.

Highway unloaded was 14.8 mpg (35" tires & 3.73's don't help).

AE data shows turbo drive pressure- EBP 51.37 and boost gauge at 35 (limited by wastegate).

ICP=3004.72 IPR%=38.28 RPM=3185 Inj PW=2.8

Not much coal, but will blow some gray (not blue) smoke until turbo is spooled.

Spoke w/ Jody @ DP and he suggested and different turbo

It's very frusterating to read a ton of threads that dead end because th OP never comes back to report the fix, so I will keep this updated.

Any thoughts?

 

Empty MPG 14? Have you used your AE to set your tire size? I'm thinking your odo is under-reporting your miles traveled.

EBP is backpressure plus atmospheric pressure. Boost is just boost above atmospheric pressure. If you take about 14 PSI off that EBP, that leaves you with 38 PSI backpressure and 35 PSI boost. Not too bad... but it has room for improvement with a 38R. Those were my numbers with the AIS intake, and my Filter Minder lived at the "you're due" spot on the indicator. I was regretfully forced to get rid of my beloved AIS and I went to the S&B.

I have AC 160/100s, hybrids have much lower fuel pressure out the nozzle (my 21,000 PSI to your 15,000 PSI) - which makes less atomization for the same ICP as I have.

 

I was hopin you would chime in. I have the same S&B, my truck was the test mule for that filter. I set my tire size in AE to 34.5 and the speedo is dead on with my garmin. It used to be there was nothing I could do to get less than 10mpg while towing.

That 8 second romp you did would've took my egts to 1200 and the power I have below 2300 is less than what I had with stock injectors.

DP tuner tweaked my tow tune adding ICP and shortening PW, but he wasn't sure how touchy my pedal will be. I'll be hooking the trailer up this weekend to test it out.

Thanks for the reply Tugly.

 

How many posts do you need until you can get PM's?

 

I'm having the same problem with PM's. If you're trying to PM me, you can email @ bpallies@yahoo.com

 

20 or 25


Though I am no expert and under shear guessing here with those sticks does the 38r flow enough air to support that much fuel? It seems to me that would be on the low side of where you would want to be.

 

The case can be made for a different turbo if I were trying to use those sticks to their potential, but in a tow tune and nowhere near full throttle is where the biggest problem is. There was a thread somewhere about the WW2 on a 38r with 250/200's putting down 600hp with good egts, but dyno vs. towing isn't apples to apples.

 

Update: Jody sent me a revised tow tune with higher icp and shorter inj PW, so I hooked up the trailer today and went for a spin with AE watching the vitals. The new tune made some difference in power and egts, but still not where I was with stock sticks. My egts are still about 200* hotter for a given scenario vs. stock injectors.

I noticed a couple of other things that made me go Hmm; I checked the perdels before the drive and after romping on it. Hotter oil seems to make a few cylinders act up.

Heres Perdels at 134* oil temp w/ gray cps:

1 0.2
2 0.0
3 1.4
4 1.4
5 1.9
6 0.0
7 0.0
8 3.3

Perdels at 220*

1 0.0
2 0.0
3 0.0
4 0.0
5 3.9
6 0.0
7 1.6
8 3.4

I'm not sure what to make of these numbers if anything at all ( it could be worn muffler bearings for all I know). It is interesting to see the relationship between 7 3 4 5 in the firing order (12734568) and the perdels.

I also logged RPM, Pedal position, Inj PW and ICP in one run, then EBP vs. MAP in another, but I'm not sure how to post that here. I sent all of this to Jody to see what he makes of it.

Looking at the EBP vs. MAP, I noticed MAP maxed at 26.1. MAP was showing 13.6 KOEO and agreed with EBP KOEO. I noticed most people run a mechanical boost fooler while I have a zener diode between my map wire and ground. According to theses readings, my PCM is only seeing 12.5 psi boost. Could this be messing things up?

Any thoughts?

 

PERDELS: #8 could be nothing more than a CPS - my gray one did the same thing. What color is yours? #5 is another matter. I had this same problem with #2, and I had excessive coal on the lower end of the RPM band. You may not like my solution: I didn't want down time, so I bought another injector as a spare. I swapped out #2 with the spare and I noticed two things on the first drive: Idle was much better with #2 PERDEL low like the others, and the soot at foot-fall went away.

Zener diode: I know this one. I'm one of the few here that had one, but it was unknown to me (installed by PO, along with a red line bleeder). As soon as I found it, that bad boy was sent straight to the round room next to the porch. With a low boost signal on the PCM, the tuning will very likely guard the fuel valve to the injectors like Gollum guarded his ring. Getting rid of the zener diode on the MAP line will allow the SES light to come on for 90 seconds every time Matt and Pedal embrace. Lightning on the dash goes with the thunder outside, but that's the only "issue"... the chip needs to see up to 22 PSI to let fly with the fuel.

 

Just a quick update: I swapped a new injector into #5 and that cleared up my rough idle when warm. Cyl 5 now has 0.0 for perdels. The truck drives better, but I'm still battling egts. I'm gonna hook the trailer up and log more info this weekend.

Couple of ?'s, will swapping from grey to dark blue CPS affect my SOI timing? And are perdels in the 0.9-1.5 range anything to look into, or should I ignore them?

 

My attention isn't swayed by a PERDEL less than 2, but obviously - the lower the better.

Timing didn't go sideways on Stinky when I switched from gray to black (or dark blue... my eyes suck), but the PERDELs sure did quite down on #3 and #8.

 

I"m no expert but your "before the build" EGT's seem high to me. This isn't apples to apples but with my rig with stock sticks, Stock or the Van Turbo, open exhaust I struggle to reach 1200 at WOT on my Street Muscle tune. Have you verified no boost and exhaust leaks?

What size exhaust?
Air intake?

 

I guess I should be more clear about the egts. The high egts with stock sticks where when towing 10-12k in overdrive at 1900 rpm up a slight grade. I always had the option of dropping to 3rd, then egts weren't an issue. I have an S&B intake, Banks power elbow, Banks 4" exhaust, and IH up pipes.

On my commute home from work, there's a 4 mile section of interstate with a 3-4% climb that I have always used as a test route. In my old stockish configuration, I would hold 65mph on OD at 4-7psi boost, and 7-800 egt, not towing. Now I run those same numbers, but at 9-1100 egt.

 

I've looked at every exhaust joint and see no signs of leaks. My last AE run showed EBP at 40 with boost at 25, and baro at 13.9. I made a leak tester for the intake and found nothing.

 

Your not the first to say this with PSI injectors. I'm not saying there bad, but the second guy recently that I've read with high EGT's. I know Robin, RIP, ran those injectors and had no problems. He also used Jody for the tuner, that said guys have left and gone to other tuners and had good luck. I run Jody's tunes and have know problems, I am running stock sticks but do want to go with 200/100 when I change. And I do tow 12K to 15K also. Haven't talked to FFD yet but would like new and not hybrid.