Calling all Alignment PRO's...
#32
#33
This is what I meant when I said they are not asymmetrical. There is no left or right. It is a bideriectional symmetrical tread. I believe the inherent design flaw that causes the pull to the right is the incredibly steep angle and size of the outer tread blocks vs. the smaller inner blocks. If you look at the tread face on the tire, then imagine it rotating forward and hitting the ground. The leading edge of the outer tread blocks would act as an inclined plane, making a wedge. The direction it would shift the tires as they travel would be to the right based on the angle, so it makes sense to me. Here is a link to the tire so you can see the tread.
#34
You're still not seeing it...maybe I can try to find a way to draw and illustrate it. It doesn't matter what side of the truck the tire is mounted on because there is a vertical centerline where the tread pattern is rotated 180 degrees making a symmetrical pattern. So, whichever way it is flipped, it will appear the same. I can't explain it well without an illustration.
#35
It returns to center slightly, but not much. It never has, even brand new with stock tires is didn't. I have already increased the caster drastcially. It has doubled from what it was.
#36
#38
Yes, it's aimed to the right, which would push the truck to the left, but everything I have found leads me to believe that the 0.2 degrees is not enough to cause what I am experiencing. Maybe I am wrong though. I am considering jacking up the truck and turning the key on and seeing if the stabilizer pushes the wheel at all off center. Might be easier then removing the stabilizer for a test.
#39
Please don't be condescending just because you disagree.
Look at the Nitto Trail Grappler. It's got essentially the same design elements as you're referring to. But you're alleging that Nitto tires pull left and Toyo tires pull right. What about the millions of Nitto and Toyo tires sold with no such allegations made? What about the millions of other similarly designed tires with no such superstition surrounding them? It's a case of people finally noticing a behavior (that is wildly affected by things like road crowning and so forth) and leaping to conclusions as to the actual cause. Go ahead, swap on a set of Nittos and see if it suddenly starts pulling left instead. Easy to test.
If it's a real problem, it would be a real problem EVERY TIME. Like I said, show me a TSB or other such notice from Toyo. Or any tire manufacturer ever, for that matter.
Look at the Nitto Trail Grappler. It's got essentially the same design elements as you're referring to. But you're alleging that Nitto tires pull left and Toyo tires pull right. What about the millions of Nitto and Toyo tires sold with no such allegations made? What about the millions of other similarly designed tires with no such superstition surrounding them? It's a case of people finally noticing a behavior (that is wildly affected by things like road crowning and so forth) and leaping to conclusions as to the actual cause. Go ahead, swap on a set of Nittos and see if it suddenly starts pulling left instead. Easy to test.
If it's a real problem, it would be a real problem EVERY TIME. Like I said, show me a TSB or other such notice from Toyo. Or any tire manufacturer ever, for that matter.
#40
Firekite is sort of confrontational about this, but I think he's right. I definitely don't buy the argument that certain tires will pull one direction or other. The only way that's possible would be if they used directional tread, and if a tire company were to do that they'd never sell them.
#41
Please don't be condescending just because you disagree.
Look at the Nitto Trail Grappler. It's got essentially the same design elements as you're referring to. But you're alleging that Nitto tires pull left and Toyo tires pull right. What about the millions of Nitto and Toyo tires sold with no such allegations made? What about the millions of other similarly designed tires with no such superstition surrounding them? It's a case of people finally noticing a behavior (that is wildly affected by things like road crowning and so forth) and leaping to conclusions as to the actual cause. Go ahead, swap on a set of Nittos and see if it suddenly starts pulling left instead. Easy to test.
If it's a real problem, it would be a real problem EVERY TIME. Like I said, show me a TSB or other such notice from Toyo. Or any tire manufacturer ever, for that matter.
Look at the Nitto Trail Grappler. It's got essentially the same design elements as you're referring to. But you're alleging that Nitto tires pull left and Toyo tires pull right. What about the millions of Nitto and Toyo tires sold with no such allegations made? What about the millions of other similarly designed tires with no such superstition surrounding them? It's a case of people finally noticing a behavior (that is wildly affected by things like road crowning and so forth) and leaping to conclusions as to the actual cause. Go ahead, swap on a set of Nittos and see if it suddenly starts pulling left instead. Easy to test.
If it's a real problem, it would be a real problem EVERY TIME. Like I said, show me a TSB or other such notice from Toyo. Or any tire manufacturer ever, for that matter.
Firekite is sort of confrontational about this, but I think he's right. I definitely don't buy the argument that certain tires will pull one direction or other. The only way that's possible would be if they used directional tread, and if a tire company were to do that they'd never sell them.
I really am not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to explain the information.
#43
This is actually the opposite of what would be true. A directional tire would be the most stable, but only in the forward direction obviously. And there are more than a few dedicated M/T tires which are directional. I think everyone is getting caught up with the tire discussion, but I do not think my issue has anything to do with the tires lol.
Originally Posted by devongarver
I really am not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to explain the information.
#44
Yep, tried multiple times.
This is what I was trying to explain to redford. Because the tire is symmetrical, it will have the same habits no matter which way it rolls. That is why there is no left or right side. If you open the link I put for toys in my last post, right click and save the image of the face oft he tire tread. Then open it in Paint or whatever program you have, and rotate the image 180 degrees. You will see it now looks like the bottom half of the same tire, the tread looks the same, because it is. It is symmetrical. Now look closely at the tread blocks that are angled on the outside of the tire edges. They are angled in the same direction, pitched left upwards to the right. Looking at the picture that is rotated 180 degrees, the angle is still exactly the same. So do you see how no matter which direction the tire rolls, the outside tread blocks only angle in ONE direction? So if these tread blocks have more leading edge hitting the ground than the center treads which counter act the angle, then the outer tread blocks will have a slight gain to one direction over staying neutral. This is what causes the tire to shift ever so slightly to the side as it rolls. Not enough to notice at 10mph, but going 60mph you will. Now, this is just what I have theorized, and it makes sense to me. But I just emailed Toyo so we will see what they say, if they respond lol.
But how is a tire going to be able to pull one specific way when it can be rolling either direction? Directional tread is the only way you can assure that a tire will only roll a certain direction. I'm sure some funny tread designs on directional tread could produce a predictable pull. :-confused
Glad to hear it, I'm certainly enjoying the discussion.
Glad to hear it, I'm certainly enjoying the discussion.
#45
I believe the reason it is not a problem on every set of tires if because everyone's truck is different. And, as most threads indicated, most shops can adjust the caster to correct for the pull.
I think everyone is getting caught up with the tire discussion, but I do not think my issue has anything to do with the tires lol. I really am not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to explain the information.