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PTO Tribulations on a T98

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Old 12-29-2013, 11:15 AM
The Horvaths The Horvaths is offline
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Smile PTO Tribulations on a T98



Albatross' T98 has a PTO to drive the lift cylinder's pump. It is a Chelsea six bolt, with a casting number of 450A and all that I can make out of a model number appears to be, or at least end with, "4CFW." It has some issues.

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This is not an easy modification to reverse. The farmer must have wanted to be sure that this never came loose again. Ever. I want to change from the cooty-Bob lever setup hacked into the transmission floor pan and move to a cable system. Attempts to get this nut off may prove to be the undoing of the shaft itself. If the picture is difficult to see, the nut is welded to both the shaft and the lever.


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This seal cover was struck in a couple of places. Evidently it was a deliberate attempt to swell the seal and reduce the hemorrhage of gear oil. It showed to be a vain attempt by the time that I got the truck.


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The seal is for a 1" shaft and has a 1.5" OD and 3/8" thickness.

Does anyone know where I may find this seal? And what about that shaft, does anyone have a suggestion for salvaging it intact? Or, perhaps, does anybody have a similar PTO in better condition that they'd be willing to part with?

Inquiring minds want to know!
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:24 AM
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There has to be many of these old PTO boxes laying around with unscathed parts. There were brands other than Chelsea and functionality was the same. Sorry, but I sold the one off Blue. So far as the seal, pull it out and get the numbers. Any good bearing, seal shop should be able to come up with a replacement. I really can't see it well enough to tell what you're up against on the lever.
Don't always blame the farmer.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:42 AM
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There should be P/N's on the seal, that will allow a shop to do an interchange search. Here are the closest ones I saw.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:59 AM
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Here is a different view. I'm mostly concerned about how to properly fix this.

Thank you for the fast responses on the seal. I am going to have to pull it anyway, I was just hesitant to do so until I had a replacement in hand.

It is fully possible that the original lift bed/grain box installer did this hack job, but, the truck has only been owned by two farmers in its prior life. According one of the town folk, the last guy who owned it never really drove it at all. He apparently bondo'd the body liberally, slathered paint onto EVERYTHING(!) with a brush, and then let it sit for ten years. Then I got it.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:08 PM
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Some careful grinding and you may get lucky .
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:26 PM
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Yes grinding off the welds carefully should get the nut off.
I have done this several times on heavy equipment. Go slow
and use a new grinding wheel on a 4 inch angle grinder.
Once the weld is ground to where ya can see the crack
between the two parts and the circle of the shaft on top
it may unscrew. Buy a nut splitter at this point may be in order.
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:14 PM
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Well, grinding down through the face of the nut/shaft mess has exposed a slag-filled porous tunnel that includes a major portion of the shaft. In other words, the shaft has been burned with a torch and what's left of it is very solidly fused to the nut. It's starting to look like I need another PTO or perhaps at least a donor unit. If anybody has a lead on one, I'm definitely looking. I need most any six bolt PTO that will fit a T98 or T18 and point to the rear when mounted on the right (passenger) side. I'd consider others (such as a dual-shaft).
Thanks,
Jeremy

BTW: It would probably also fit a spur-gear crash box and/or a T19.. Anyway, I'm a-lookin'.
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:35 PM
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Could we see a pic of the shaft and nut since ya ground it down?
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:45 PM
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Don't be proud, just re-weld it after you do whatever you are doing to it. This is known as "cootie-bob'ing" and face it, who's going to see it?!
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:57 PM
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Good point Ross. Just hope the new seal survives.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:02 PM
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Talking Aftermath

I cut, ground, nut split, ground some more, and I managed to salvage 1/2" of useable threads on the shaft because they had put a 3/4" split washer behind the lever. This worked out to my advantage.
Here is what's left:

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I chased the 1/2-20 threads and there is just enough to use. The home made lever never had splines, there was a small bushing smashed onto the splines. Well, now there's another seal to figure out because this is oozing too. Then I'll figure out how to connect it to a cable system. It looks like another one may live to work yet another day.

My T98 is together and the PTO is all that's left for it to be ready to roll. I can soon get to finishing the details of the 292 such as painting the bell housing, front mounts, engine, and get it running.

Details on the T98 rebuild should be posted in a week or so.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:21 PM
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Looking good. Glad ya got it.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:42 PM
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If you still have your trans open, could you post a picture of how 4th gear mates to the input shaft? I never thought about it, but it must be like a synchro hub minus the synchro? Or do they actually get 4th (direct) by having 5 gears on the cluster?
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:47 PM
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Good job !I can see that working again .
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:03 PM
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
If you still have your trans open, could you post a picture of how 4th gear mates to the input shaft? I never thought about it, but it must be like a synchro hub minus the synchro? Or do they actually get 4th (direct) by having 5 gears on the cluster?
It does have its lid on but I'll try via these pictures. There are four gears on the cluster as shown in the drawing. If I've done my math right, it is attached/accomplished as follows:

Overview:
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3rd/High Synchro Sleeve:
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3rd/High Hub and fixed gear:
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BTW: the PTO seal is marked "206 CR."

EDIT: hub is splined to output shaft.
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