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  #1  
Old 12-16-2013, 12:32 AM
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e99 SD #8 injector failing CCT

So I've had my OBS for a while now, and am getting pretty good at diagnosing and fixing it when it needs it. However, that isn't the problem.

The problem is this... my friend has an e99, that he put a 97 engine into. No big deal. He put all his stuff into the 97 engine, and it runs "fine" for now. The thing that he came to me about though, is that he has noticed his fuel economy dropping, and he thinks it has an ever-so-slight miss to it. I'm pretty sure that I can just barely feel what he's talking about at idle. I hooked it up to my AE, and it's failed the CCT on #8 on 5 different tests over as many days. He's swapped out his #8 and #2 injectors, no change. He's swapped his UVCH's, no change. He swapped in a spare PCM, no change.

Now, I've been told that it's "common" for a SD to fail like that. Is it really? Where else can I start looking to fix this for him?
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:46 AM
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A 97 engine into a 99 chassis.

The two had different fuel systems, that not coincidentally, directly effected the fill (or lack thereof) of injector #8.

Which fuel system did your friend use? The 97 system, or the 99 system?
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:27 AM
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By fuel system, do you mean fuel bowl, hard lines, pump, etc? As far as I know, he used everything from his 99 engine. I know the fuel bowl and fuel pump are the the SD one. Anything else, I'd have to ask him about.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:45 AM
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...

Now, I've been told that it's "common" for a SD to fail like that. Is it really? Where else can I start looking to fix this for him?
Yes, very common. Nothing to fix.
If you really want #8 to pass the CCT then find an original black CPS like Riffraff used to sell. I think all the old stock has been depleted but there are a few left out there. I know someone who has 3 of them but I can't get him to part with any of them.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:15 AM
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I have two original black ones... the original black one still in service after 13 years, and the original black spare that I paid $90.00 for back in 2001... they were quite expensive before Ford recalled them. After the recall, the price "magically" dropped down to $15.00. At that price, I had to buy a couple more... an international obs blue one and the recall gray one just for giggles. Still waiting for the original one to hiccup, but no problems yet, knock on wood.

I used the NGS to run a Cyl Cont Test yesterday, and system passed without error.

The 99-up fuel system, combined with split shots, ended up starving injector 8 for fuel, due to the firing order, the fuel supply plumbing location on the heads, and vibrations.

Somehow, this issue didn't seem to present itself with the earlier 94-97 fuel system, where the fuel lines into the head were plumbed differently with the pump in the valley, and where the injectors didn't split shots.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:27 AM
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I have two original black ones... the original black one still in service after 13 years, and the original black spare that I paid $90.00 for back in 2001... they were quite expensive before Ford recalled them. After the recall, the price "magically" dropped down to $15.00. At that price, I had to buy a couple more... an international obs blue one and the recall gray one just for giggles. Still waiting for the original one to hiccup, but no problems yet, knock on wood.

I used the NGS to run a Cyl Cont Test yesterday, and system passed without error.

The 99-up fuel system, combined with split shots, ended up starving injector 8 for fuel, due to the firing order, the fuel supply plumbing location on the heads, and vibrations.

Somehow, this issue didn't seem to present itself with the earlier 94-97 fuel system, where the fuel lines into the head were plumbed differently with the pump in the valley, and where the injectors didn't split shots.
I think I paid $45 each for the two sensors that I purchased. I guess it was 'half off day'. (my wife would be proud...)
I think there are a few aftermarket companies making a black colored CPS now in hopes that people will ****** them up but I prefer the black CPS in the International box. That one is still my favorite.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:28 PM
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Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


Three different Camshaft Position Sensors...

Left - Early sensor for the early 94-97 (with violet O-Ring)

Middle - Original Black Sensor for the 99-01 (with yellow cadmium plated mounting bracket) in middle.

Right - Revised Gray Sensor for the 99-03 (the replacement per the recall, with zinc plated mounting bracket)


Internet sociologists will excavate the strata of data back to this time and find a sad state of affairs in mankind,
where people were mentally diseased to the point of posting pictures of packages of hall effect sensors.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:38 PM
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Great photo!
Notice the difference in apparent magnet size between the models. The black one in the middle looks more robust then the others...

The recall sensor has the added benefit of also causing #3 to fail the CCT test along with #8...... but at least the engines aren't shutting off any more.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:40 PM
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...
Internet sociologists will excavate the strata of data back to this time and find a sad state of affairs in mankind,
where people were mentally diseased to the point of posting pictures of packages of hall effect sensors.
That is too funny.....true, but funny.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:27 PM
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Still patiently waiting to come across an OE Black CPS...
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:38 PM
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So if, by chance, he didn't swap out the CPS when he swapped the engine, would that have anything to do with it? I'll tell him to change them out anyway to see what happens.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:59 PM
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Just a few minutes ago, I ran a fresh cylinder contribution test with a new PCM that I reprogrammed for my truck today, and it passed with no errors, using the original Black cps (aka CMP).

Until it was brought up in this thread, I hadn't realized how much of an impact the version of CPS has on the results of CCT's?
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Y2KW57 View Post
Just a few minutes ago, I ran a fresh cylinder contribution test with a new PCM that I reprogrammed for my truck today, and it passed with no errors, using the original Black cps (aka CMP).

Until it was brought up in this thread, I hadn't realized how much of an impact the version of CPS has on the results of CCT's?
The method of calculating cylinder contribution is fairly crude compared to other vehicles. Since these engines do not have a crank position sensor, it has to rely solely on the CMP for the data. Other engines have high res and low res data so they can more accurately measure crank velocity. The EcoBoost is so advanced that not only can it measure velocity on a cylinder by cylinder basis but it also can vary injector PW for individual injectors to compensate for any measured variances. Pretty cool stuff.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:29 PM
 
 
 
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