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6.4L Power Stroke Diesel Engine fitted to 2008 - 2010 F250, F350 and F450 pickup trucks and F350 + Cab Chassis SPONSORED BY:

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  #1  
Old 12-14-2013, 03:30 PM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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2010 6.4L DPF Issues

I am new to the forum, and have done many internet searches but haven't found anything that specifically addresses my issue.

I have a 2010 F-250 XLT Super Cab that has 31,000 miles on it. It is my company vehicle and I absolutely love the truck. I put approximately 10-11k miles a year on it and it was purchased for me when it had 11k miles on the truck. We haven't had any issues with it until the last few months. Here is a bit of back story on what has happened.

The last oil change we noticed that the oil level that was drained out the the truck was more than 15 quarts. It wasn't much high, but it was enough that we called the dealer and they said as long as its not more than 3 quarts in 7,500 miles we are OK.

1,500 miles later the truck got stuck in "cleaning exhaust filter" mode for over a week and a half. I drove the truck lots trying to clean out the exhaust, but didn't have any luck with getting the message to clear. While its cleaning it feels as if it has no power whatsoever and blows white smoke like a train.

The truck was taken to the dealer and they checked the oil and said that it was WAY over (as in multiple quarts). This was only 1,500 miles after the oil change and they basically said we didn't drive the truck long enough to let the exhaust filter clean properly. They also stated that we overfilled the oil when we changed it and this accounted for the extra quarts of oil. The also cleaned out the turbos, apparently they were clogged and all gunked up. They marked the oil level on the dip stick (apparently we can't read), and told us to keep an eye on it.

240 miles later and it starts to re-gen again, this time staying on for a couple of days. I had to drive the truck over 36 miles to get the light to come off. This is much longer than the 20 miles the dealer was claiming it needed driven.

Another 140 miles later and the exhaust is back to cleaning again, this time it will not go out no matter how long its driven. We checked the oil and in 500 miles since the last oil change we gained almost an inch on the dip stick.

We called the dealer and they came and picked up the truck. They have since talked with ford and cannot get the truck to stop cleaning. They swapped a pile of parts out including the computer and still cannot get the truck to stop cleaning the exhaust. They stated there was also an anti-freeze leak that they were able to fix.

Finally they called us and said they believe they know what the issue is. They said that the exhaust isn't getting hot enough to burn the diesel fuel that is being injected into it. Because of this the exhaust wont clean and the fuel is getting in the crank case and causing the oil level to increase.

The kicker to all of this is they do not know how to fix the issue. They have swapped every part that Ford has told them to and nothing has worked. They had the truck almost a week and a half the first time around and we are going on three weeks for the most recent incident with no end in sight.

My question to you guys is have any of you heard of the exhaust not getting to temperature and causing the dpf not the clean properly? If so how was it fixed. We have thrown around the idea of putting a kit on the truck and removing the DPF, but its a company truck and is still under warranty so we hate to void that.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2013, 05:05 PM
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2013, 11:38 PM
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Could be fuel trim tables are not correct or faulty DPF temp or EGRT sensors if the temps cant be met IMO, proably has no codes so someone will have to get down and dirty with that being said i think they all make oil with the dpf i would suggest a new dealer with some better techs and get away from the part changers
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:23 AM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SANDDEMON08 View Post
Could be fuel trim tables are not correct or faulty DPF temp or EGRT sensors if the temps cant be met IMO, proably has no codes so someone will have to get down and dirty with that being said i think they all make oil with the dpf i would suggest a new dealer with some better techs and get away from the part changers

Yeah I know they have tried to reprogram it twice now. Once the first time and again now that they have it. The computer has also been switched out as well. I know that most make oil, but out of 11-12 trucks with the 6.4 engine, only 2 make oil.

The other truck doesn't make much at all. The biggest issue with this one is that it won't clean the exhaust.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:31 AM
Scornwell Scornwell is offline
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Do you have a DTC reader? Are there any DTC's? Do you let the truck idle a lot? Does the truck do a lot of in town driving and short trips that does not allow the truck to reach operating temperature?
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:41 AM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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Originally Posted by Scornwell View Post
Do you have a DTC reader? Are there any DTC's? Do you let the truck idle a lot? Does the truck do a lot of in town driving and short trips that does not allow the truck to reach operating temperature?

There are no codes showing except for the cleaning exhaust or drive to clean exhaust. We have put it on a code reader and nothing shows.

As for my driving, I don't let it sit and idle for long periods. I know other trucks we have sit for extended periods and idle and no issues with them.

My commute to work is 17 miles. Everyone else I work with has 8 mile trips and their trucks get cleaned in 1-2 trips home. Mine used to clean in less than a trip (10 miles). Now it refuses to clean at all and is not reaching the temperature needed no matter how much the truck is driven.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:04 AM
Scornwell Scornwell is offline
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Is the exhaust tail pipe black and coated with soot? Does the truck blow black smoke?
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:14 AM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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It doesn't blow black smoke at all. The tip of the exhaust is perfect. Looks new with 31k miles on the truck. I've actually gotten lots of compliment from guys with 6.4's saying their tips are always black and they've never seen one that clean.

Blows white smoke like a train while it's cleaning. Other than that nothing.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:32 AM
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I'm leaning towards a faulty exhaust back pressure sensor. The DPF will go into regeneration when that sensor reads too much back pressure and then it tells the PCM to start the DPF cleaning process. Usually that sensor will throw a code of p0068 and shut the truck down. Other than that I'm sure someone with more experience and know how will chime in.

I modified the exhaust and reprogrammed the truck and never looked back. Totally different truck afterwards.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:27 AM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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Originally Posted by Scornwell View Post
I'm leaning towards a faulty exhaust back pressure sensor. The DPF will go into regeneration when that sensor reads too much back pressure and then it tells the PCM to start the DPF cleaning process. Usually that sensor will throw a code of p0068 and shut the truck down. Other than that I'm sure someone with more experience and know how will chime in.

I modified the exhaust and reprogrammed the truck and never looked back. Totally different truck afterwards.

Thanks for the info. I will check into that.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:51 PM
aquaman aquaman is offline
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I've analyzed mine to death, I think. Search on some of my posts regarding regen and I have some notes about how regen works.

240miles between completed regens is about what I (used to) get. I've gotten as low as 175miles now that the weather is cold.

I suspect the only real way of gettng to the bottom of this is to monitor what's happening during regen. I use a Scanguage2 to monitor the 3 exhaust temperature sensors but it doesn't have the PID for the DPF pressure sensor

I think this is a link to my graphs of some regens I logged with an AutoEnginuity scanner. They'll give you a good idea of what all goes on. Note the timescale needed for stuff to happen. Short trips while regening won't do any good.

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - aquaman's Album: Aquaman's F350

I dropped my DPF to clean it out at 30K with my shop compressor and there was a half of a small sandwich baggie worth of ash. After blowing it out, my regens were extended out about 50-75miles for a while. I've got 55K on it now and probably do it again one of these days. For sure, if it's cold outside, it'll take forever to heat up the DPF to do any good unless you're on the freeway the whole time. Stop-and-go city driving while regen is a complete waste of fuel, stays in regen forever, dumps fuel into the oil, and just soots up the thing. I hate it. Avoid city and cold weather driving if at all possible

I think one quick non-intrusive thing you can try without dismantling everything is carefully detach and clean out the pressure sensor which is located at the end and top of the CAT, bolted to the DPF. I had a 1/8" layer of soot built up on the walls of the cavity between the CAT and DPF...the pressure tube/hole on the CAT had some soot in there as well.. Blow it out also.
Feel free to ask questions!!
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:32 PM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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Originally Posted by aquaman View Post
I've analyzed mine to death, I think. Search on some of my posts regarding regen and I have some notes about how regen works.

240miles between completed regens is about what I (used to) get. I've gotten as low as 175miles now that the weather is cold.

I suspect the only real way of gettng to the bottom of this is to monitor what's happening during regen. I use a Scanguage2 to monitor the 3 exhaust temperature sensors but it doesn't have the PID for the DPF pressure sensor

I think this is a link to my graphs of some regens I logged with an AutoEnginuity scanner. They'll give you a good idea of what all goes on. Note the timescale needed for stuff to happen. Short trips while regening won't do any good.

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - aquaman's Album: Aquaman's F350

I dropped my DPF to clean it out at 30K with my shop compressor and there was a half of a small sandwich baggie worth of ash. After blowing it out, my regens were extended out about 50-75miles for a while. I've got 55K on it now and probably do it again one of these days. For sure, if it's cold outside, it'll take forever to heat up the DPF to do any good unless you're on the freeway the whole time. Stop-and-go city driving while regen is a complete waste of fuel, stays in regen forever, dumps fuel into the oil, and just soots up the thing. I hate it. Avoid city and cold weather driving if at all possible

I think one quick non-intrusive thing you can try without dismantling everything is carefully detach and clean out the pressure sensor which is located at the end and top of the CAT, bolted to the DPF. I had a 1/8" layer of soot built up on the walls of the cavity between the CAT and DPF...the pressure tube/hole on the CAT had some soot in there as well.. Blow it out also.
Feel free to ask questions!!
Thanks for all the info. Looks like it's more that likely a sensor that is not functioning properly. We will probably talk to the dealer tomorrow. Hopefully they have come up with something. Thanks again.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:35 AM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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Looking at your graphs for temperature I can see that it gets well above 300 deg F during the regen process. According to the dealer, my truck doesn't go above 300 degrees even during extended periods of highway driving.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:05 AM
aquaman aquaman is offline
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The DPF is heated up by dumping fuel into the CAT. On my truck, the exhaust at the inlet of the cat runs 400-500F during regen on the freeway and the CAT heats it up to 800-1100F entering the DPF to maintaining a DPF outlet temperature rise of no less than 100-150F while soot burns. It seems to limit a maximum DPF temperature of 1250F at the outlet; I was once going up a steep incline while in regen and the regen stopped prematurely when I hit 1300F

There should be codes that get thrown if the temperatures of the 3 temperature sensors don't make sense among them. One of them would be CAT efficiency test where the CAT outlet temperature is not hot enough compared to the inlet. Rationality tests are also done on the sensors every time the truck is started.

One of the sensors may very well be out-of-spec if you're not seeing anything above 300F

Let us know what you find out!
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:36 PM
CobraR6 CobraR6 is offline
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Well I got my truck back today. Looks like they replaced all three sensors in the exhaust. They think that will fix it. They drove it. 100 miles and calibrated everything. Supposedly it cleaned, but only for 10 minutes and finished.

They said to drive it and let them know if it does the same thing again. Looks like it's just another wait and see. Thanks for the help. It makes me feel better that they came to the same conclusion as you. Hopefully they fixed it for good.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:36 PM
 
 
 
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