Hi everyone, would appreciate any suggestions about these DTC's and symptoms: BullyDog monitor shows PO341 and PO487. On clearing these and restart they reappear. For 1-2 months or more, I have noticed that sometimes on cold start it cranked for longer than it seems liked it should, like for 5-7 seconds, before firing. I have wondered if the FICM was going bad again, but didn't look for codes until yesterday. This week once with cold engine it cranked for that long, didn't fire, then fired on second attempt, again cranking maybe 5 secs. When warm it usually fires after about 2-3 seconds. Just now, at 38 degF, it started right up in 2-3 seconds.

The thing that concerns me other than cranking time is that it does run rough on starting when cold, for a few seconds. It is like a surging idle speed, up and down, then settles down. This is worse in cold weather, cold start; doesn't do it so much with warm engine or cold engine/warm weather. When running up the engine speed in neutral to about 1250 rpm it runs with a shake I can actually feel in the driver seat. I have ran it up to about 2,800-3000 rpm and the shake seems a little worse. It may be my imagination, but it seems this shaking, which to me is like a cylinder not firing, is not as bad with the BD tuner set on mid-level, vs. stock level.

A year ago I did have the FICM code (PO 611 if I remember correctly), and had the FICM repaired by the man in Ft.Worth. I see the PO341 indicates a cam sensor module, but do not see any interpretation of the PO487.

I have not checked the voltage output of the FICM. The truck is at 87,318 miles. In June 2012 we had the egr-oil cooler failure, along with fan clutch, just after the extended warranty expired at 75K. Paid to fix that, along with ARP studs, and was able to buy another warranty. The warr. doesn't cover the FICM, but about everything else in the powertrain.

Is there a possibility a bad cam sensor module might affect the FICM, without a 611 code, or would the intermittent hard start, and/or rough idle at start, and shaking like it is missing on one cyl., all be due to a bad cam sensor alone? Thanks for any insight to relationship of these codes and symptoms.

 

What year and motor do you have? 7.3 or a 6.0?

 

2005, 6.0, auto. Overlooked that basic info.

 

The cam sensor will not affect the FICM.
P0487 is Exhaust Gas Recirculation Throttle Control Circuit A Open.

Did you delete the EGR Cooler?

If so, you will want to keep your EGR valve plugged in and in its hole.

How does it start when warmed up?

 

Did everything stock except for the ARP studs. In all my reading and from what the tech who did the engine repairs said, I am at the conclusion the best defense against the egr/oil cooler expensive failure is changing the coolant every 40K miles. I may change it at 35K. (Ford is still saying for normal use to do the initial change at 105K. My oil cooler was clogged at less than 75K miles, and I did all maintenance that was indicated).

- the warm start-up is pretty good, not real long in cranking, and doesn't do the surging that it does when cold.
- I just wonder if the rough running at off-idle rpm, as in poor engine balance or mis-firing cylinder type of roughness, is normal, or maybe because of an injector problem? And, would this have anything to do with the cam sensor?

Q.re: cam sensor - can someone tell me where it is located, as in where an amateur can replace it without an extreme ordeal, especially working outdoors? In addition to the FICM, this is another item that is not covered on my ExtraCare ESP.

Q. egr-throttle sensor code: is this different than just the TPS, if there is one that is labeled only the TPS, without egr in the equation? Would this contribute to either the hard start and initial rough running, or the imbalance type roughness at higher rpm?

Thanks a lot, Joe

 

Can you read your FICM voltage with the BD?

It really sounds like that could be your problem.

You can test the FICM voltage with a digital volt meter.

 

I changed my coolant every year and a half, eight years later with 60k on the clock I had a failed oil cooler. I did an EGR delete and switched to Delo ELC coolant. Hopefully that will fix my problem but only time will tell. I wasn't going to give the Gold another chance.

 

The cam sensor is behind the power steering pump. You need to remove the belt and the p.s. pump bolts and swing the pump away from the block. This will expose the cam sensor(which is about 5 inches long) and it's 10 mm bolt, after which you can pull the sensor from the block.

 

Wow, at 60K miles. That's not what we expected when we bought these trucks. At 8 yrs. on the '05, that failure wasn't very long ago, so how many miles do you have on the Delco coolant?

I looked at the videos and read quite a bit about doing egr delete, coolant filters, different coolant, etc., but since I had the dealer do the work and bought a new warranty from the dealer, I don't think they would have gone along with the mod's.
May give the mods more serious thought after the warranty is up, if I don't sell it.
I will do the Blue Spring mod though, soon as possible. I have given serious consideration to a different coolant, too. I have read conflicting opinions about that, but with the evidence of what happens with the Ford Gold, changing it per Ford's rec's or better, it looks like it sure wouldn't be any worse to try a different one.

I thought the current hard start, rough start-up was the FICM again also. Was a little surprised when finally looking at the codes and it wasn't. No, the BD monitor doesn't show the FICM voltage. Maybe the newer ones do, if there is a sensor for the voltage. I never did measure the voltage last year, didn't trust myself to not screw up and short it out, and had the code with the symptoms anyway. It ran better after the fix, but I wonder how low the voltage can get before the code is thrown. I may go ahead and measure it anyway.

Could you, or someone, clue me in as to what it takes to remove the p.s. belt? I know the space around the front of the engine is really tight is some areas where the fan shroud is in the way. I can't get the truck in my 3 car garage because of two dead cars in there, so have to work outside, and it looks like lousy weather is here for a week or so.

Thanks for the good info.

 

I have just over 3k on the Delo coolant. So far so good. The oil cooler plugged early this year. I never would have though I would have oil cooler problems with my maintenance schedule. At least I caught it before the egr cooler ruptured.
Definitely do the Blue spring upgrade, but hold off on anything that will void your warranty.
If you have a digital voltmeter you can test the FICM voltage. There is a write up in the 6.0 section in the tech folder. I'm not sure how low the voltage has to get before it sets a code.
The serpentine belt tensioner is below the alternator and takes a 1/2" square drive to release the tension on the belt. There is a flat tool with the 1/2" drive to make it easier.

 

Thanks J, I get the thing about turning the tensioner with the 1/2" break-over. Been a while since I did that on my Fox body 5.0 to change the supercharger belt. Will give it a shot.

 

Just a few more Q's, please:
1. how urgent is it to replace the cam position sensor? Obviously the engine hasn't cratered, yet, because of it; the problem may have been there for a couple of months, more or less, since I have noticed the longer cranking times, but hadn't checked for codes until a few days ago. No doubt it should be fixed, sooner the better, but if it is a ticking time bomb then I want to drive it as little as possible until I get it fixed, and fix it ASAP.

2. Are these two codes related, did the failure of one contribute to failure of the other, or is it maybe just coincidence?

3. Could/would someone elaborate on what is the significance of the "EGR Throttle
Control Circuit A Open"? Why would this occur; what is the fix for it?

Thank you -

 

I have been getting these codes again, or still, so just looked on here today and realized I never answered your Q. above about the BD.

- No, the BD won't show the FICM voltage. On talking with two techs at local dealer about these codes and checking the FICM voltage, one of them said that in regard to determining any relationship of these two codes to the FICM you have to check the internal voltage of the FICM, which is apparently different than the 48v. you can check with a multi-meter. He did hook up his shop laptop to the truck, checking the FICM "internal voltage", and said it was OK. Also, it was putting out 48 volts in the test you can do with the multi-meter.

Both of these techs said these codes are not really a problem even though they do come up commonly. That was during the holidays some time.
Since, I have noticed some smoke on very cold start ups, what looks more like oil smoke than the white smoke of coolant going through the cylinders, and on one occasion, the thing did run very rough on my 2 mile warm-up drive to the highway, then acted like it was missing on one cylinder for a couple hundred yards or so, to the point of shaking the truck. Then it calmed down and has not done that again. I haven't had a chance to take it to the dealer and ask them about it, though I will soon.
It is under warranty, the Extra Care Plus, (next to top Ford warranty) and I want to get it fixed. Obviously something is not right, and I have read on here and other forums that there can be a problem with the harness to the FICM, such as connectors getting dirty or worn, etc.
- Will let you know what happens at the dealer.