Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel SPONSORED BY:

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:09 PM
Tugly's Avatar
Tugly Tugly is online now
I'm a cautionary tale
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 10,031
Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.
S&B vs. AIS - With Photos

Stinky started with an AIS from the previous owners, but my upgrades to AC 160/100 injectors and a 38R turbo put an end to the useful life of the AIS in the truck. The stock Filter Minder told me that even a new filter cartridge didn't have enough flow. Here is the AIS:

Click the image to open in full size.

Within 5 minutes, everything was out... thanks to tools I have.

Click the image to open in full size.

Putting the new S&B in was not as fast, but everything fit as it should:

Click the image to open in full size.

For those wondering how these two filters "size up", The cartridges:

Click the image to open in full size.

The snorkel inlets:

Click the image to open in full size.

The un-cluttered view:

Click the image to open in full size.

The rigid tube to the CCV tee (unsure what that is called) will make it much more difficult to do any future work under the valve covers. The AIS top popped right off with clips and one band clamp. Now with the S&B, I would have to remove two band clamps, slide the boot back, remove two bolts, then pull the rigid tube out - before I could access anything else on the driver side. I hope my VC-popping days are done for a while.

All the components for the S&B filter housing are of very high quality, it is far more sturdy than either the stock or AIS housings. I don't like the clear plastic on top, it feels like Plexiglass (not Lexan), but I could be wrong. Swapping filters on the AIS was unclip, lift old filter, drop in new filter, clip - easy peasy. Changing a filter on the S&B will involve removing the four screws on the clear cover (hoping not to lose them), unclamping the filter, swapping the clamp to the new filter, clamp new filter, install cover and screws.

The AIS factory configuration has the filter housing closed, with just the snorkel opening. I had cut a hole in the housing to draw air in from the fender opening. The S&B has a very large hole to draw air from the fender opening, this may make more noise than I wish, but I can tinker with that if it does.

I have no performance comparisons yet. I was busy all day and this was the last project before packing it in. I will have some wheel time soon... so check back if you're curious.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-17-2013, 12:23 AM
diehardstroker's Avatar
diehardstroker diehardstroker is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Monroe, MI
Posts: 841
diehardstroker has a good reputation on FTE.diehardstroker has a good reputation on FTE.
Im curious to see what you think of that intake. Im also curious as to what made you pick this as a solution
__________________
Mitch, 2000 F250 7.3 4x4 160k miles. MODS: Beans Tunes. 4" exhaust. S&B intake. boost fooler. USA ported housing w/ Clays billet compressor wheel. Sinister Diesel coolant filter. glowshifts 3 in 1 gauge. AIH delete. bellowed uppies. Garret HFO. Plenum inserts. Mishimoto radiator hoses.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-17-2013, 12:30 AM
DHamSTER's Avatar
DHamSTER DHamSTER is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Paw Paw
Posts: 392
DHamSTER has a good reputation on FTE.DHamSTER has a good reputation on FTE.
Im with Diehard, what made you pick S&B?

I know you are looking for more air flow for your tune but isn't the 4" inlet a little more restrictive than an open element filter. Mind you I do you know you are looking for something more quiet. Im just asking for some details is all.
__________________
Dylan, 2000 F250 7.3, Beans Tunes, RiffRaff 6/6 Wheel, BigBoost, BD 1.0 Ex. Housing, HFOw/Blank Pedestal, S&B Intake, MaxTow Gauges. Future Mods- Applied Performance 62mm Turbo, Regulated Return, T500, Meth/Water Inj., BTS VB & TC, Warn Hubs, TruTrac, OUO Bars, RR Diff, Isspro Gauges & CTS Insight.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-17-2013, 01:08 AM
aawlberninf350's Avatar
aawlberninf350 aawlberninf350 is offline
It's a Van Gogh
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pinole, CA
Posts: 1,272
aawlberninf350 is a name known to allaawlberninf350 is a name known to allaawlberninf350 is a name known to allaawlberninf350 is a name known to allaawlberninf350 is a name known to allaawlberninf350 is a name known to all
Great pics Rich! I'm liking the bigger snorkel to the front! The AIS does look on the small side there. I saw a fix for that, the "cool canuck mod" (see pic) but that just looks like a great way to get rain water and crap thrown by the fan straight into your intake. Not a good idea IMHO. Also digging the clear plastic lid on the S&B, makes it easy to eyeball the filter. Do you plan to sleeve the port to the fender? Then there is the impolite question: will you install the filter minder?
Attached Images
 
__________________
David
2002 F350 7.3 CCSB 4X4 AIS WW Mishimoto 6.0 IC 6.0 trans cooler 26 row RiffRaff: FRx Plenum Reinforcers AIH Delete
Isspro EVs 50 cent Coolant Filter Hutch/Harpoon DP Tuner Walker BTM 4R100 w/FTVB nlemerise AC mod Mile Marker 449ss RedHead 08 diff cover Fumoto DDM HID 55w 4500k Bilsteins Donaldson DBL7405 Peragon Bed Cover SSBC V8 Frozen Rotor Hawk LTS
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-17-2013, 05:14 AM
Tugly's Avatar
Tugly Tugly is online now
I'm a cautionary tale
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 10,031
Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.
There is a HUGE opening in the filter housing that faces the fender, much bigger than the one that I made in the AIS housing when I was trying to get more air. If you look through the right side of the newly-installed filter housing, you can see a cable on the fender.

There is no port for the filter minder, so I'm looking into that. There is a port for the Air Intake Temperature sensor, and that was easy to install.

S&B had ISO 5011 flow data published, and I could see what it would do at WOT. I couldn't find squat on the others, just a bunch of "We're better than the other guy" graphs. Joey's experience had me leaning hard in the direction of the AFE Stage 2 Pro Dry, but the design didn't warrant the $140 bump in price. S&B was cheaper, it looked nicer, the design was thought out and a lot of effort was put into it, and the flow data was there.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-17-2013, 07:40 AM
acf6's Avatar
acf6 acf6 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manchester, CT
Posts: 12,350
acf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputationacf6 has a superb reputation
miles.degrandi
Yours has no port for the filter minder? Thats strange. There was one on my 6.0 intake but it was way on the bottom and you have to pull the gasket out of the old intake and swap it over
__________________
Miles
2003 F350 KR 4x4 - 6.0L
-ARPs, egr delete, coolant filter, blue spring, 5" MBRP, S&B, SRL+, SGII/EV2s, Flight Fab trac bars, 4" lift/35s, empty wallet, etc
coming soon: BPD water pump, Dieselsite HPOP, running for more than a week

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:13 AM
Tugly's Avatar
Tugly Tugly is online now
I'm a cautionary tale
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 10,031
Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.
I've been banging on the calculator for a while, and I finally feel warm and fuzzy about the accuracy of this information. The graph below will be counter-intuitive, but it takes a lot more volume of air in Denver to make a 17 PSI boost than it does in Seattle. That being said, a filter isn't straining to filter thin air like it would if it were to filter the same flow of sea-level air. This means the flow/restriction curves would be the same in Seattle, but different in Denver.

Click the image to open in full size.


One might ask "But Tugly, where is the AIS flow data?" It is rumored the AIS flows like stock, but has a much higher dirt load. I welcome any feedback or data on that.

This brings a rather pointed controversy into the conversation: I was primarily aiming for a cold-air intake. When I did my calculations for the graph above, it took a LOT more air flow to get the same performance with a significant intake temperature increase (like one would find inches above the exhaust manifold of an engine under load).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-17-2013, 11:10 AM
cps cps is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: coquitlam,BC
Posts: 769
cps is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.cps is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
subscribing.....
__________________
00 F350 SCLB 4x4 auto,Banks power elbow with 4 " exhaust, Banks 100hp chip, pillar gauges,AFE 6637 filter,CCV mod,Custom built Rotomaster turbo,80 hp modified injectors ,AIH delete,Foil delete, RR HPX FRX,Warn hubs, Bd trans & torque Con,, Bilstein shocks,2" level kit, Amsoil oil bypass,Trucool cooler,Banks transcommand, hutch/harpoon mod.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-17-2013, 12:33 PM
t.scottNDU's Avatar
t.scottNDU t.scottNDU is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Posts: 498
t.scottNDU has a good reputation on FTE.t.scottNDU has a good reputation on FTE.t.scottNDU has a good reputation on FTE.
Everything I've read in my seemingly endless research on the AIS seems to point to it flowing much better than stock. This could mostly be speculation from AIS users, not sure.
However, there was a thread on another forum, thedieselstop I believe, where a member who supposedly worked for Donaldson posted CFM stats comparing the AIS, Donaldson B085011 (6637), and the stock 7.3 AIS. If I'm remembering correctly, breakdown went similar to this:
Stock- 450 CFM
B085011- 650 CFM
AIS- 750 CFM
I think there were also restriction numbers as well, can't remember those.
To be honest, these numbers don't mean much to me personally. I'm not sure what factors into figuring out CFM, or *H2O, etc.
__________________
-Tyler
-2003 F-350 Lariat CCLB SRW 4x4 7.3L Power Stroke- 199,000 mi, Donaldson AIS, HPX, FRx, Int'l T444E Water Pump, Chevron Delo ELC, Melling M208 LPOP, Fluidampr, DP Tuner F6 & Infinity DX, AIH Delete
Autometer Factory Match Gauges (EGT, Boost, Trans Temp), MBRP 4" w/ Straight Pipe, BFG All-Terrain T/A KO 285/75R16
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-17-2013, 01:59 PM
BDalton's Avatar
BDalton BDalton is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs,CO
Posts: 382
BDalton is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.BDalton is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I have had the S&B for about 4 years now and have no complaints. I wanted something that flowed better than stock and was not as loud as the old 6637 I was running previously. Seat of the pants I can't tell a difference but I feel more confident with the fit and filter clamp connection than I did with the 6637. Also, the clear top makes it easy to view the condition of the filter and change or clean as needed.
__________________
-Brian
'00 F-350 Super Cab SRW SB 4x4
124K miles, S&B Cold Air Intake, HPX, MKO 4" Exhaust
BTS VB, F-650 Dash w/ Phantom Gauges
CCV, AIH Delete
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-17-2013, 05:10 PM
Tugly's Avatar
Tugly Tugly is online now
I'm a cautionary tale
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 10,031
Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t.scottNDU View Post
:
Stock- 450 CFM
B085011- 650 CFM
AIS- 750 CFM
I think there were also restriction numbers as well, can't remember those.
To be honest, these numbers don't mean much to me personally. I'm not sure what factors into figuring out CFM, or *H2O, etc.
The restriction numbers are half of the answer, there is no answer without restriction numbers. The graph above is two-dimensional - CFM flow by inches of vacuum at the turbo inlet. Put your hand over the nozzle on a Shop Vac and you reduce the flow while creating a stronger vacuum at the turbo inlet. According to the graph, the stocker can handle 800 CFM at 25 inches of vacuum, but the S&B handles it much easier at about 13 inches of vacuum - less suction at the turbo inlet.

Flow numbers mean almost nothing alone, like longitude means almost nothing without latitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDalton View Post
I have had the S&B for about 4 years now and have no complaints. I wanted something that flowed better than stock and was not as loud as the old 6637 I was running previously. Seat of the pants I can't tell a difference but I feel more confident with the fit and filter clamp connection than I did with the 6637.

Unsubstantiated rumors:
  • The 6637 flows and cleans as well as or better than just about anything out there. Well... the "Tymar" is what was originally used, with a Donaldson filter that had excellent filtering capabilities. The Wix 6637 looks like that filter, but the price argues against its ability to match the performance. I wouldn't drink that Kool Aid unless I had done the homework to verify every claim. This is not to say it's all a lie, but group-think happens a lot on forums.
  • The AIS out-filters and out-flows the stock filter. In all my reading of Motorcraft and Donaldson documentation, I haven't found them to claim improved initial flow... and you'd think they would if the product was that miraculous. Here is an excerpt from the AIS PDF from Donaldson:
This retrofit air induction system kit is
ideal for truck owners who operate their
vehicle in dirty and dusty conditions and
want longer filter service life and
improved engine protection.
• Three times or more efficient compared to
average conventional pleated or reusable
wire mesh filters
• Straight-through airflow delivers powerful
performance
• Improved engine protection: no media movement,
expansion, contraction or bunching
• Improved contaminant encapsulation: during service,
the dust and dirt stay contained in the filter
• Installs in 30-45 minutes

That "straight-through air flow" implies the air has a laminar flow, making it better for a turbo to ingest. Nice, but the bends in the tube to the turbo pretty much rip any laminar flow.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-17-2013, 08:37 PM
Tugly's Avatar
Tugly Tugly is online now
I'm a cautionary tale
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 10,031
Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.
Crap. It ain't quiet... not even close to the AIS. I just got up to 50 MPH on an errand today, and that bad boy sounds... er... turbo-ish at low boost. It's no a whine like I've heard on a stock turbo with a 6637, it's more like being a passenger in a 737 taxiing to the runway. I'll find out how it does in the real world (highway driving) tomorrow. I may have a problem to solve.

*EDIT* Noise being worked out later in thread.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-17-2013, 08:45 PM
HD Rider's Avatar
HD Rider HD Rider is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glendive, MT
Posts: 1,043
HD Rider has a very good reputation on FTE.HD Rider has a very good reputation on FTE.HD Rider has a very good reputation on FTE.
Getting some foam and making a fender sleeve might help a lot. I'm interested in the outcome as I am against the same wall as you.
__________________
[/SIGPIC]Paul Zumpf
2000 F-250 4x4 CC LB
AIS, Zoodad, CCV, OCR, IH Bellowed Uppipes, GTP38R, 6.0L IC, Diesel Site Boots, 5" exh, AIH, Foil, and EBPV delet, Hutch/Harpoon, Coolant Filter, 203* T-stat, 08 Diff Cover, Bypass Filter, Tranny Cooler, Isspro EV2's, T-500 HPOP, WVO system, Tony Wildman Tunes
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:18 PM
Tugly's Avatar
Tugly Tugly is online now
I'm a cautionary tale
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 10,031
Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.Tugly has a spectacular reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Rider View Post
Getting some foam and making a fender sleeve might help a lot. I'm interested in the outcome as I am against the same wall as you.

I'm looking hard at two mods for the housing: The foam against the fender was my first thought, it may contain the noise to the fender well. I'm also looking at putting a neoprene flap over the filter window - it's possible the Plexiglas is resonating like a speaker. I think the real issue is the pleated filter media is not a sound-abatement device like the Powercore media is. There may not be a real fix for this, but I have yet to listen to the truck in all modes and it might not be a disaster. I'll get a video of the sound and share it as soon as I can.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:22 PM
diehardstroker's Avatar
diehardstroker diehardstroker is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Monroe, MI
Posts: 841
diehardstroker has a good reputation on FTE.diehardstroker has a good reputation on FTE.
What I'm wondering is, do you have anymore haze on spirited runs?
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2013, 09:22 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hydra How-To... in Pictures Tugly 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel 32 02-11-2014 09:42 AM
Oil Coolers and the mess they make. Tugly 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel 9 11-20-2013 08:38 AM
Stinky's New Adventures - With a Twist. Tugly 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel 59 08-19-2013 06:47 AM
Coastal Coasting Tugly 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel 7 07-28-2013 10:54 PM
It ain't wrapped in yellow tape, but... Tugly 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel 13 06-30-2013 08:53 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup