Truck Finely died,,, TECHS HELP
#16
10-25-2013, 11:10 AM
OK so I put 2 in new battery's and the truck wouldn't start .. retuned it and it fired right up and ran great. came out in the AM started right up ran great to work, so we will see. the Cam and crank sync is still showing 0 then 1 and green to red back and forth. is this a bad crank sensor? I know the cam sensor is good I replaced it like 2 month ago.
Always kept a new one, a 10mm wrench and flathead screw driver in the glove box...
Your sync I doubt is lying: that's what the computer is seeing...
#17
10-25-2013, 11:45 AM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't directly help you, other than my experience on 7.3s was that we'd see both intermittent pre-failure symptoms like you are describing (truck would die, then maybe restart, sometimes run crappy and then die, etc. and eventually not run at all). And also that a new CPS could and did crap out.
Always kept a new one, a 10mm wrench and flathead screw driver in the glove box...
Your sync I doubt is lying: that's what the computer is seeing...
Always kept a new one, a 10mm wrench and flathead screw driver in the glove box...
Your sync I doubt is lying: that's what the computer is seeing...
#18
10-25-2013, 12:01 PM
I don't frequent your guy's forum much so don't know how often any Techs check in. Over on the 6.0 side we have several regulars, one in particular you might just want to PM and see what he says and if there's other diagnosis you can do. He's Mike Chan up in Canada (m-chan68) -- very knowledgable and very nice guy...
Good luck!
Good luck!
#20
10-25-2013, 01:22 PM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#21
10-25-2013, 07:16 PM
Elder User
i found this
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">Customer Concern: </td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> The engine will not start. It cranks over fine. There are no codes.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">
</td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> 1. First check synch, it should say yes when cranking, if not, the cam and crank sensors will need to be checked.
2. Check fuel rail pressure with your scan tool. When the engine is cranking, there should be at least 5000 PSI of fuel pressure.
3. If there is not sufficient fuel rail pressure, check the low pressure fuel to the fuel cooler, see the attached illustration for fuel pressure. This should be at least 3 PSI of fuel pressure. If the low pressure fuel is low, check the fuel filters for restriction.
4. If the low pressure fuel is good, but the high pressure fuel is low, perform low and high bleed procedures before suspecting a leak in the high pressure system or a weak high pressure pump.
5. If both the high and low fuel pressure are good, synch is yes, but the engine will not start, check the EGR voltage on your scan tool. Key on engine off voltage should be below 1 volt. If the voltage exceeds 1.3 volts key on engine off, remove the EGR valve and inspect for a stuck open EGR valve.
6. If all tests are ok, but the engine will not start, check compression, compression will normally be 350 PSI or above.
EDIT: found this on what sync should be
<table height="57" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="1032"><tbody><tr><th rowspan="2" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Sensors/Inputs</th> <th rowspan="2" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">PCM Pin/PID only</th> <th colspan="4" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Measured/PID Values</th> <th rowspan="2" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Units Measured/PID</th> </tr> <tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">KOEO</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Hot Idle</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">48 KM/H (30 MPH)</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">89 KM/H (55 MPH)</th></tr></tbody></table>
<table height="29" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="1002"><tbody><tr><td align="CENTER" valign="top"> SYNC</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">PID</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">NO
</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES
</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES
</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES/No</td></tr></tbody></table>
2nd edit:
1. Note, the P0336 can set because of no start, it does not have to be the cause of the no start. To verify if the problem is related to the crank sensor or cam sensor, watch the RPM, if there is a good RPM on your scan tool, the crank sensor is fine. To confirm a good cam sensor signal, watch the "synch". If it says yes when cranking, the cam sensor is fine.
2. If both the cam and crank are ok, check the fuel rail pressure sensor on your scan tool next. There should be at least 5000 PSI of pressure when cranking the engine.
3. If the pressure is not 5000 PSI, check your volume control and pressure control PIDs. The volume control PID will read VCV for volume control valve, the pressure control will read PCV for pressure control valve.
4. If the PCM wants to give the fuel system pressure, the percent will continue to increase while you are cranking. If the percentage continues to increase on both, but there is not 5000 PSI of fuel pressure, high pressure fuel system tests will need to be performed.
5. In some cases, if a fuel filter was replaced, the fuel system will need to be bleed out to get the air out of the system.
6. If the fuel is bleed properly, but there is still not enough high pressure, check the low pressure when cranking. There is a schrader valve located at the fuel cooler assembly.
7. There should be 5 PSI of low pressure. If there is not, check the power and ground to the electric low pressure pump.
8. If the low pressure is fine, but there is not enough high pressure to start the truck, there is either a leak in the high pressure side, or a failed pump assembly.
9. Pull the valve covers first, then crank the engine and look for any leaks around the fuel injector or fuel injector lines. Even a minor drip, can cause this concern.
10. If there are no leaks found there, then unplug all the injectors, remove the glow plugs, then crank the engine over. If any glow plugs holes continue to have fuel coming out of them while cranking, suspect a failed injector on that hole.
ive got a detailed check list for both CKP and CMP if you want to check them futher...
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">Customer Concern: </td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> The engine will not start. It cranks over fine. There are no codes.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">
</td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> 1. First check synch, it should say yes when cranking, if not, the cam and crank sensors will need to be checked.
2. Check fuel rail pressure with your scan tool. When the engine is cranking, there should be at least 5000 PSI of fuel pressure.
3. If there is not sufficient fuel rail pressure, check the low pressure fuel to the fuel cooler, see the attached illustration for fuel pressure. This should be at least 3 PSI of fuel pressure. If the low pressure fuel is low, check the fuel filters for restriction.
4. If the low pressure fuel is good, but the high pressure fuel is low, perform low and high bleed procedures before suspecting a leak in the high pressure system or a weak high pressure pump.
5. If both the high and low fuel pressure are good, synch is yes, but the engine will not start, check the EGR voltage on your scan tool. Key on engine off voltage should be below 1 volt. If the voltage exceeds 1.3 volts key on engine off, remove the EGR valve and inspect for a stuck open EGR valve.
6. If all tests are ok, but the engine will not start, check compression, compression will normally be 350 PSI or above.
EDIT: found this on what sync should be
<table height="57" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="1032"><tbody><tr><th rowspan="2" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Sensors/Inputs</th> <th rowspan="2" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">PCM Pin/PID only</th> <th colspan="4" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Measured/PID Values</th> <th rowspan="2" align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Units Measured/PID</th> </tr> <tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">KOEO</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">Hot Idle</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">48 KM/H (30 MPH)</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">89 KM/H (55 MPH)</th></tr></tbody></table>
<table height="29" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="1002"><tbody><tr><td align="CENTER" valign="top"> SYNC</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">PID</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">NO
</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES
</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES
</td> <td align="CENTER" valign="top">YES/No</td></tr></tbody></table>
2nd edit:
1. Note, the P0336 can set because of no start, it does not have to be the cause of the no start. To verify if the problem is related to the crank sensor or cam sensor, watch the RPM, if there is a good RPM on your scan tool, the crank sensor is fine. To confirm a good cam sensor signal, watch the "synch". If it says yes when cranking, the cam sensor is fine.
2. If both the cam and crank are ok, check the fuel rail pressure sensor on your scan tool next. There should be at least 5000 PSI of pressure when cranking the engine.
3. If the pressure is not 5000 PSI, check your volume control and pressure control PIDs. The volume control PID will read VCV for volume control valve, the pressure control will read PCV for pressure control valve.
4. If the PCM wants to give the fuel system pressure, the percent will continue to increase while you are cranking. If the percentage continues to increase on both, but there is not 5000 PSI of fuel pressure, high pressure fuel system tests will need to be performed.
5. In some cases, if a fuel filter was replaced, the fuel system will need to be bleed out to get the air out of the system.
6. If the fuel is bleed properly, but there is still not enough high pressure, check the low pressure when cranking. There is a schrader valve located at the fuel cooler assembly.
7. There should be 5 PSI of low pressure. If there is not, check the power and ground to the electric low pressure pump.
8. If the low pressure is fine, but there is not enough high pressure to start the truck, there is either a leak in the high pressure side, or a failed pump assembly.
9. Pull the valve covers first, then crank the engine and look for any leaks around the fuel injector or fuel injector lines. Even a minor drip, can cause this concern.
10. If there are no leaks found there, then unplug all the injectors, remove the glow plugs, then crank the engine over. If any glow plugs holes continue to have fuel coming out of them while cranking, suspect a failed injector on that hole.
ive got a detailed check list for both CKP and CMP if you want to check them futher...
</td></tr></tbody></table>
#22
10-25-2013, 08:40 PM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i found this
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">Customer Concern: </td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> The engine will not start. It cranks over fine. There are no codes.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">
</td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> 1. First check synch, it should say yes when cranking, if not, the cam and crank sensors will need to be checked.
2. Check fuel rail pressure with your scan tool. When the engine is cranking, there should be at least 5000 PSI of fuel pressure.
3. If there is not sufficient fuel rail pressure, check the low pressure fuel to the fuel cooler, see the attached illustration for fuel pressure. This should be at least 3 PSI of fuel pressure. If the low pressure fuel is low, check the fuel filters for restriction.
4. If the low pressure fuel is good, but the high pressure fuel is low, perform low and high bleed procedures before suspecting a leak in the high pressure system or a weak high pressure pump.
5. If both the high and low fuel pressure are good, synch is yes, but the engine will not start, check the EGR voltage on your scan tool. Key on engine off voltage should be below 1 volt. If the voltage exceeds 1.3 volts key on engine off, remove the EGR valve and inspect for a stuck open EGR valve.
6. If all tests are ok, but the engine will not start, check compression, compression will normally be 350 PSI or above.
EDIT: found this on what sync should be
<table border="1" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="3" width="1032" height="57"><tbody><tr><th vAlign="bottom" rowSpan="2" align="CENTER">Sensors/Inputs</th> <th vAlign="bottom" rowSpan="2" align="CENTER">PCM Pin/PID only</th> <th vAlign="bottom" colSpan="4" align="CENTER">Measured/PID Values</th> <th vAlign="bottom" rowSpan="2" align="CENTER">Units Measured/PID</th> </tr> <tr> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">KOEO</th> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">Hot Idle</th> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">48 KM/H (30 MPH)</th> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">89 KM/H (55 MPH)</th></tr></tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="3" width="1002" height="29"><tbody><tr><td vAlign="top" align="CENTER"> SYNC</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">PID</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">NO
</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES
</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES
</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES/No</td></tr></tbody></table>
2nd edit:
1. Note, the P0336 can set because of no start, it does not have to be the cause of the no start. To verify if the problem is related to the crank sensor or cam sensor, watch the RPM, if there is a good RPM on your scan tool, the crank sensor is fine. To confirm a good cam sensor signal, watch the "synch". If it says yes when cranking, the cam sensor is fine.
2. If both the cam and crank are ok, check the fuel rail pressure sensor on your scan tool next. There should be at least 5000 PSI of pressure when cranking the engine.
3. If the pressure is not 5000 PSI, check your volume control and pressure control PIDs. The volume control PID will read VCV for volume control valve, the pressure control will read PCV for pressure control valve.
4. If the PCM wants to give the fuel system pressure, the percent will continue to increase while you are cranking. If the percentage continues to increase on both, but there is not 5000 PSI of fuel pressure, high pressure fuel system tests will need to be performed.
5. In some cases, if a fuel filter was replaced, the fuel system will need to be bleed out to get the air out of the system.
6. If the fuel is bleed properly, but there is still not enough high pressure, check the low pressure when cranking. There is a schrader valve located at the fuel cooler assembly.
7. There should be 5 PSI of low pressure. If there is not, check the power and ground to the electric low pressure pump.
8. If the low pressure is fine, but there is not enough high pressure to start the truck, there is either a leak in the high pressure side, or a failed pump assembly.
9. Pull the valve covers first, then crank the engine and look for any leaks around the fuel injector or fuel injector lines. Even a minor drip, can cause this concern.
10. If there are no leaks found there, then unplug all the injectors, remove the glow plugs, then crank the engine over. If any glow plugs holes continue to have fuel coming out of them while cranking, suspect a failed injector on that hole.
ive got a detailed check list for both CKP and CMP if you want to check them futher...
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">Customer Concern: </td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> The engine will not start. It cranks over fine. There are no codes.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-Whites" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-LeftRuledRows">
</td> <td class="ADVV1-HotlineArchives-RuledRows"> 1. First check synch, it should say yes when cranking, if not, the cam and crank sensors will need to be checked.
2. Check fuel rail pressure with your scan tool. When the engine is cranking, there should be at least 5000 PSI of fuel pressure.
3. If there is not sufficient fuel rail pressure, check the low pressure fuel to the fuel cooler, see the attached illustration for fuel pressure. This should be at least 3 PSI of fuel pressure. If the low pressure fuel is low, check the fuel filters for restriction.
4. If the low pressure fuel is good, but the high pressure fuel is low, perform low and high bleed procedures before suspecting a leak in the high pressure system or a weak high pressure pump.
5. If both the high and low fuel pressure are good, synch is yes, but the engine will not start, check the EGR voltage on your scan tool. Key on engine off voltage should be below 1 volt. If the voltage exceeds 1.3 volts key on engine off, remove the EGR valve and inspect for a stuck open EGR valve.
6. If all tests are ok, but the engine will not start, check compression, compression will normally be 350 PSI or above.
EDIT: found this on what sync should be
<table border="1" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="3" width="1032" height="57"><tbody><tr><th vAlign="bottom" rowSpan="2" align="CENTER">Sensors/Inputs</th> <th vAlign="bottom" rowSpan="2" align="CENTER">PCM Pin/PID only</th> <th vAlign="bottom" colSpan="4" align="CENTER">Measured/PID Values</th> <th vAlign="bottom" rowSpan="2" align="CENTER">Units Measured/PID</th> </tr> <tr> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">KOEO</th> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">Hot Idle</th> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">48 KM/H (30 MPH)</th> <th vAlign="bottom" align="CENTER">89 KM/H (55 MPH)</th></tr></tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="3" width="1002" height="29"><tbody><tr><td vAlign="top" align="CENTER"> SYNC</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">PID</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">NO
</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES
</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES
</td> <td vAlign="top" align="CENTER">YES/No</td></tr></tbody></table>
2nd edit:
1. Note, the P0336 can set because of no start, it does not have to be the cause of the no start. To verify if the problem is related to the crank sensor or cam sensor, watch the RPM, if there is a good RPM on your scan tool, the crank sensor is fine. To confirm a good cam sensor signal, watch the "synch". If it says yes when cranking, the cam sensor is fine.
2. If both the cam and crank are ok, check the fuel rail pressure sensor on your scan tool next. There should be at least 5000 PSI of pressure when cranking the engine.
3. If the pressure is not 5000 PSI, check your volume control and pressure control PIDs. The volume control PID will read VCV for volume control valve, the pressure control will read PCV for pressure control valve.
4. If the PCM wants to give the fuel system pressure, the percent will continue to increase while you are cranking. If the percentage continues to increase on both, but there is not 5000 PSI of fuel pressure, high pressure fuel system tests will need to be performed.
5. In some cases, if a fuel filter was replaced, the fuel system will need to be bleed out to get the air out of the system.
6. If the fuel is bleed properly, but there is still not enough high pressure, check the low pressure when cranking. There is a schrader valve located at the fuel cooler assembly.
7. There should be 5 PSI of low pressure. If there is not, check the power and ground to the electric low pressure pump.
8. If the low pressure is fine, but there is not enough high pressure to start the truck, there is either a leak in the high pressure side, or a failed pump assembly.
9. Pull the valve covers first, then crank the engine and look for any leaks around the fuel injector or fuel injector lines. Even a minor drip, can cause this concern.
10. If there are no leaks found there, then unplug all the injectors, remove the glow plugs, then crank the engine over. If any glow plugs holes continue to have fuel coming out of them while cranking, suspect a failed injector on that hole.
ive got a detailed check list for both CKP and CMP if you want to check them futher...
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Thanks and yes I would like the detailed check list if possiable I think this is the problem,, I went ahead and put a new one in and the Ohm's were way different the old one was 400 and the new was 600 and it runs way different RPM is super steady as well as the fuel pressure so we will see...
#24
10-25-2013, 10:03 PM
Elder User
#25
10-25-2013, 10:05 PM
Elder User
<table cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody><tr><td> Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor
</td> <td align="RIGHT" width="25%">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <hr>D1 CHECK THE CKP SENSOR SIGNAL SENT TO THE PCM
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">For DTCs P0336 and P0337, GO to D2
For DTC P1336, GO to D9
For all others, the CKP, PCM, and harness are working properly.
RETURN to Symptom Charts for further direction. </td> <td width="50%">GO to D2 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D2 CHECK FOR PROPER CKP BIAS VOLTAGES IN THE PCM
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D3 </td> <td width="50%">GO to D5 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D3 CHECK THE CKP SENSOR RESISTANCE
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D4 </td> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new CKP sensor. REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 303-14, Electronic Engine Controls.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D4 CHECK THE CKP HARNESS SHIELD GROUND
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D5 </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the open circuit.
CHECK for a poor ground connection.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D5 CHECK FOR SHORT BETWEEN CKP(+) AND CKP(-) IN THE HARNESS
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D6 </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D6 CHECK THE CKP CIRCUIT(S) FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D7 </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the open circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D7 CHECK THE CKP CIRCUIT(S) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND IN THE HARNESS
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D8. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D8 CHECK THE CKP CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> <td width="50%">GO to D9 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D9 CHECK THE CKP AND CMP HARNESS FOR INTERMITTENT CONCERNS
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> <td width="50%">GO to D10. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D10 CHECK THE PHYSICAL CONDITION OF THE CRANKSHAFT PULSE WHEEL
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D11. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary. REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 303-00, Engine System to check for correct CKP sensor installation.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D11 CHECK FOR CORRECT PCM OPERATION
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 2, Flash Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM)</td> <td width="50%">The system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector.</td></tr></tbody></table>
</td> <td align="RIGHT" width="25%">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <hr>D1 CHECK THE CKP SENSOR SIGNAL SENT TO THE PCM
- Note: The battery should be fully charged and the starting system should be functioning properly.
- Key ON, engine OFF.
- Access the PCM and monitor the RPM PID.
- Crank the engine.
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">For DTCs P0336 and P0337, GO to D2
For DTC P1336, GO to D9
For all others, the CKP, PCM, and harness are working properly.
RETURN to Symptom Charts for further direction. </td> <td width="50%">GO to D2 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D2 CHECK FOR PROPER CKP BIAS VOLTAGES IN THE PCM
- CKP Sensor connector disconnected.
- Key ON, engine OFF.
- Measure the voltage between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CKP Sensor Connector, Harness Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - )</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP+ - Pin 1</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">Ground</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP- - Pin 2</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">Ground</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D3 </td> <td width="50%">GO to D5 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D3 CHECK THE CKP SENSOR RESISTANCE
- Key in OFF position.
- Measure the resistance between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CKP Sensor Connector, Component Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - ) CKP Sensor Connector, Component Side</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP+ - Pin 1</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP- - Pin 2</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D4 </td> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new CKP sensor. REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 303-14, Electronic Engine Controls.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D4 CHECK THE CKP HARNESS SHIELD GROUND
- Note: The harness shield protects the CKP signal from electrical noise and is grounded at one end, typically near the PCM.
Note: Carry out the following resistance measurement between the CKP shield and the ground. - Measure the resistance between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CKP_SHLD Assembly Connector, Harness Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - )</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP_SHLD</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">Ground</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D5 </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the open circuit.
CHECK for a poor ground connection.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D5 CHECK FOR SHORT BETWEEN CKP(+) AND CKP(-) IN THE HARNESS
- Key in OFF position.
- PCM-E connector disconnected.
- Measure the resistance between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CKP Sensor Connector, Harness Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - ) CKP Sensor Connector, Harness Side</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP+ - Pin 1</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP- - Pin 2</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D6 </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D6 CHECK THE CKP CIRCUIT(S) FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
- Measure the resistance between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CKP Sensor Connector, Harness Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - ) PCM-E Connector, Harness Side</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP- - Pin 2</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP- - Pin 81</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP+ - Pin 1</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP+ - Pin 80</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D7 </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the open circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D7 CHECK THE CKP CIRCUIT(S) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND IN THE HARNESS
- Measure the resistance between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CKP Sensor Connector, Harness Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - ) Vehicle Battery</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP+ - Pin 1</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">Negative terminal</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP- - Pin 2</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">Negative terminal</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D8. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D8 CHECK THE CKP CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS
- Key ON, engine OFF.
- Measure the voltage between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) PCM-E Connector, Harness Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - ) Vehicle Battery</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP+ - Pin 80</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">Negative terminal</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CKP- - Pin 81</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">Negative terminal</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> <td width="50%">GO to D9 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D9 CHECK THE CKP AND CMP HARNESS FOR INTERMITTENT CONCERNS
- Note: Chafed CKP or CMP wires or other physical damage to the harness may cause an intermittent short in the CKP or CMP circuit.
- Key in OFF position.
- Visually check for chafed CKP and CMP wires or other physical damage to the CKP or CMP harness.
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> <td width="50%">GO to D10. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>D10 CHECK THE PHYSICAL CONDITION OF THE CRANKSHAFT PULSE WHEEL
- INSPECT the crankshaft pulse wheel for damaged teeth.
- Inspect the crankshaft pulse wheel for wobble.
- Check for a loose crankshaft pulse wheel.
- Check the CKP sensor for damage.
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to D11. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary. REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 303-00, Engine System to check for correct CKP sensor installation.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>D11 CHECK FOR CORRECT PCM OPERATION
- Disconnect all the PCM connectors.
- Visually inspect for:
- pushed out pins.
- corrosion.
- Connect all the PCM connectors and make sure they seat correctly.
- Carry out the PCM self-test and verify the concern is still present.
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr> <th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 2, Flash Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM)</td> <td width="50%">The system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector.</td></tr></tbody></table>
#26
10-25-2013, 10:10 PM
Elder User
V1 CHECK THE CMP SENSOR
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> <td width="50%">GO to V2. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V2 CHECK THE RESISTANCE OF THE CMP SENSOR
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CMP+ - Pin 1</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CMP- - Pin 2</td></tr></tbody></table>
Is the resistance between 616 - 1.275K ohms?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to V3. </td> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new CMP sensor. REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 303-14, Electronic Engine Controls.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V3 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to V4. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the open circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td></tr></tbody></table>
V4 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS
Is any voltage present?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> <td width="50%">GO to V5. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V5 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TO GROUND IN THE HARNESS
Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to V6. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td></tr></tbody></table>
V6 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR AN INTERMITTENT CONCERN
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> <td width="50%">For DTCs P0341 and P0342, GO to V7.
For all others, the CMP sensor and wiring is not a cause of the no start condition.
RETURN to Symptom Charts for further direction. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V7 CHECK FOR CORRECT PCM OPERATION
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 2, Flash Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM)</td> <td width="50%">The system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector.</td></tr></tbody></table>
- Key in OFF position.
- Inspect the CMP sensor for misalignment and improper installation.
- CMP Sensor connector disconnected.
- Remove the CMP sensor.
- Inspect the CMP sensor for damage.
- Inspect the CMP sensor connector for damaged or corroded pins.
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> <td width="50%">GO to V2. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V2 CHECK THE RESISTANCE OF THE CMP SENSOR
- Measure the resistance between:
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side</th> <th align="CENTER" valign="bottom">( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CMP+ - Pin 1</td> <td align="LEFT" valign="top">CMP- - Pin 2</td></tr></tbody></table>
Is the resistance between 616 - 1.275K ohms?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to V3. </td> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new CMP sensor. REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 303-14, Electronic Engine Controls.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V3 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
- PCM-E connector disconnected.
- Measure the resistance between:
Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to V4. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the open circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td></tr></tbody></table>
V4 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS
- Key ON, engine OFF.
- Measure the voltage between:
Is any voltage present?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td> <td width="50%">GO to V5. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V5 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TO GROUND IN THE HARNESS
- Key in OFF position.
- Measure the resistance between:
Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">GO to V6. </td> <td width="50%">REPAIR the short circuit. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.</td></tr></tbody></table>
V6 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUITS FOR AN INTERMITTENT CONCERN
- PCM-E connector connected.
- Key ON, engine OFF.
- Access the PCM and monitor the CMP_F PID.
- While observing the PID, carry out the following:
- Wiggle all accessible harness from the CMP sensor to the PCM and lightly tap on the sensor.
- Wiggle the CMP sensor connector.
- Look for sudden changes in the reading when the harness is wiggled or the sensor is tapped.
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">REPAIR as necessary.
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. </td> <td width="50%">For DTCs P0341 and P0342, GO to V7.
For all others, the CMP sensor and wiring is not a cause of the no start condition.
RETURN to Symptom Charts for further direction. </td></tr></tbody></table>
V7 CHECK FOR CORRECT PCM OPERATION
- Disconnect all the PCM connectors.
- Visually inspect for:
- pushed out pins
- corrosion
- Connect all the PCM connectors and make sure they seat correctly.
- Carry out the PCM self-test and verify the concern is still present.
<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="92%"><tbody><tr><th width="50%">Yes</th> <th width="50%">No</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%">INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 2, Flash Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM)</td> <td width="50%">The system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector.</td></tr></tbody></table>
#27
10-28-2013, 09:30 AM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GHeTTo JOe.. Thanks that is just awesome information. I have that stored away in my 6.4 folder. i have replace the sensor and the truck seem to be running great .. don't want to get to excited.. i have driven it a few times and no issues, even cold starts at 30 no problem so far. I am going to do thru the whole testing procedures just to be sure there is no other issue there. I will update with anything i find.
#29
11-04-2013, 09:06 AM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK so the saga continues .... drove the truck yesterday was snowing out in the 30's was looking at cars for my son, probably went 10 places no problems from the truck. go to start it this am 30 outside wont start tried about 10 times let the glow plugs cycle no start. retune the truck fires right up like half a crank ?? so let me ask WHY ? what is going on over night ? and if it is just beacuse its cold outside why is retuning it making it start ?
#30
11-04-2013, 10:02 PM
OK so the saga continues .... drove the truck yesterday was snowing out in the 30's was looking at cars for my son, probably went 10 places no problems from the truck. go to start it this am 30 outside wont start tried about 10 times let the glow plugs cycle no start. retune the truck fires right up like half a crank ?? so let me ask WHY ? what is going on over night ? and if it is just beacuse its cold outside why is retuning it making it start ?
I remember; the 7.3's needed 11 volts to start, but they'd crank below that, but never fire.