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6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van SPONSORED BY:

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  #1  
Old 10-17-2013, 10:22 PM
Lonestar Apps Lonestar Apps is offline
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Mechanic error, 6.4 valve in 6.0 head

It all started with blowing coolant and running hot when pulling a load with my 2006 F350 DRW. The fix, new head gaskets.
Keep in mind, truck still pulled quite well and ran like a champ with out a trailer. EGR delete and straight 5" exhaust done 2 months earlier. After head gaskets were done, the truck would barely turn over and just literally crawl and blew smoke after reassembly. Mechanic worked on trying to figure out why it was running this way for 5 more weeks. Believing it was electrical, he pursued that thought. Coming up empty, he took whole engine back apart to discover machine shop had placed 1 6.4 valve in the head they had put back in my 6.0 truck. It should have been noticed before ever being installed! He ordered new block and valves for truck and truck ran better, but still not right. Put all new injectors in. Truck then ran way better. Still sluggish to start and runs like it is pulling a load. FICM is fine. Drove truck 700 miles, oil pressure switch blew spewing oil every where on road trip. That was replaced, however Ford dealership found #2 and #5 injector missing. Truck has been smoking bluish gray smoke all along. #2 and #5 injector replaced again by original mechanic back home. Drove another 2000 miles. Original mechanic can not figure out why truck is running bad. Truck still not pulling well, no power, blowing smoke, shifts hard at wrong points. Took to another mechanic. Turbo is now damaged on outgoing side (oil inside) and #5 injector again testing bad.

As you can imagine, I have a small fortune invested in this truck.
Questions:
Is a reman turbo good, rebuilding mine good or aftermarket new the way to go?
Can the one 6.4 valve that was in my truck head for 5 weeks damage anything in my engine?
Ideas on why my truck RPM's are so high with bad shifting points?

The original mechanic is not charging me to replace injectors over and over. He has always been super with my past Fords. Not sure why he can't figure what happened to my truck while in his shop, that's why I have a another tech checking it out.
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2013, 10:49 PM
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That just sucks

Could it be it needs New Heads push rods lifters as well

I have now Idea the diff in 6.0 vs 6.4L Valves Longer is definite problem

Fuel press low will kill inject
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2013, 06:29 AM
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I'm trying to get the spec's on the valves now.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLADE35 View Post
That just sucks

Could it be it needs New Heads push rods lifters as well

I have now Idea the diff in 6.0 vs 6.4L Valves Longer is definite problem

Fuel press low will kill inject
I'm not sure what "push rods lifters" are since I'm as savvy with how the engine works as most.
The new guy was/is suppose to check the fuel pressure, could bad turbo cause low fuel pressure?
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2013, 10:46 AM
Lonestar Apps Lonestar Apps is offline
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Originally Posted by npccpartsman View Post
I'm trying to get the spec's on the valves now.
The 6.4 valve is a few mm longer then a 6.0. I saw it in my old head at the shop. The original tech says it will not damage any thing. Hard to believe when my truck turned into crap after the head gasket job was done.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2013, 11:29 AM
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Benny was saying that if the valve was longer and contacted the piston, then everything in line with it needs to be checked for damage. After the valve itself, you have the valve bridge that tie the two exhaust valves together (or two intake valves, there's two of each in each cylinder), the rocker arm goes from the valve bridge to the push tube, the push tube connects to rocker to the lifter, and the lifter connects the push tube to a roller on the cam shaft. You could have bent the push tube, damaged the plastic clips in the rocker arm, damaged the valve seats in the head, there are several things that could have happened. There's no guarantee that any of that actually DID happen, but those are the things that all connect to the valve without a ton of spare clearance.

Fuel pressure is regulated by a spring off the secondary fuel filter housing, it's not connected to the turbo in any way. There's an updated part for the fuel pressure regulator commonly called the "blue spring mod", if you search for that you'll find a ton of info.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...ue-spring.html
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2013, 11:59 AM
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The hydraulic lifter will accomodate a small difference in valve length. The 6.0 and the 6.4 use the same valve springs so the valves will be very close in length. If the engine is running poorly and not developing the torque at rpm that the transmission is expecting it will shift at higher rpms and seem to shift hard. I would put that aside until the engine is running right. Bluish/gray smoke is usually burning oil. Could be valve seals, could be valve guides, could be rings. Could be the original problem was a lot deeper than just head gaskets and you haven't fixed the real problem yet.
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:00 PM
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I appreciate all the information a great deal. I am having the turbo replaced with an 03 model. I was told it has better power. Then the #5 injector will be replaced again. If the same injector still tests bad, we are going to have to go back to the possibility of damage done by the wrong valve.

I am having the blue spring put on as well.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Apps View Post
?.. After head gaskets were done, the truck would barely turn over and just literally crawl and blew smoke after reassembly. Mechanic worked on trying to figure out why it was running this way for 5 more weeks. He ordered new block and valves for truck and truck ran better, but still not right. Put all new injectors in... oil pressure switch blew...Ford dealership found #2 and #5 injector missing. Truck has been smoking bluish gray smoke all along. #2 and #5 injector replaced again by original mechanic back home. Drove another 2000 miles... no power, blowing smoke, shifts hard at wrong points. Took to another mechanic. Turbo is now damaged on outgoing side (oil inside) and #5 injector again testing .
New block and valves? Seems to me that there is still something wrong with the head(s). Perhaps I don't understand the lingo here, but new block makes me think that they pulled the motor and replaced the engine block. I'm sure this isn't the case. Not sure what advice would be good for you, since you are not doing the work. Chances are the average mechanic is not going to take the customer's input on how to fix the truck, otherwise you would have done it yourself, right?
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Apps View Post
The 6.4 valve is a few mm longer then a 6.0. I saw it in my old head at the shop. The original tech says it will not damage any thing. Hard to believe when my truck turned into crap after the head gasket job was done.
I don't know about the length but I know the face angle is different. You didn't say whether it was intake or exhaust.

The intake valves are the same size but 6.0's are a 30* angle. 6.4's are 37.5.

The exhaust valves are 1.5mm bigger in a 6.4 and have a 39.5* face. 6.0
s have a 37.5
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2013, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Nobody View Post
Chances are the average mechanic is not going to take the customer's input on how to fix the truck, otherwise you would have done it yourself, right?
When I hired the guy to build my 32x8 front porch and he screwed it all up, I gave him an earful. I took photos and asked him how he could nail the rim joist the way he did, why he didn't use joist hangers, why he put the posts in front of my window when we agreed that aesthetically it wouldn't look good... he tried to say "Well, Bill, if you know so much about how to build a proch, why did you hire me to do it?"

My answer was... I don't have the time, or the help to do all of the work myself, so I hired what I thought was a competent builder. I fired him and told him not to come back. I lost $3,000 on the deal because he wouldn't give back a deposit and it took me a year to do it myself, but my porch was built correctly this time. Just because someone hires a mechanic to work on their truck, doesn't always mean that they don't have the knowledge. Sometimes, there is no choice. Time, tools and aggravation might not be in the owner's forecast. It happens.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:10 PM
Lonestar Apps Lonestar Apps is offline
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New block and valves? Seems to me that there is still something wrong with the head(s). Perhaps I don't understand the lingo here, but new block makes me think that they pulled the motor and replaced the engine block. I'm sure this isn't the case. Not sure what advice would be good for you, since you are not doing the work. Chances are the average mechanic is not going to take the customer's input on how to fix the truck, otherwise you would have done it yourself, right?
I would like to be able to have done the work myself. Not my profession. I just want to know from others thoughts on what a 6.4 valve could cause. Engine was pulled twice. 2nd time new block and valves were put in. I saw my old one sitting on the floor of the shop with the wrong valve. My mechanic spent a lot of his own time and money besides my mine trying to correct the problem. This is because my truck ran quite well when I brought it to him.

I'm sorry if I may not be saying things in the correct lingo. Doing my best.
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  #13  
Old 10-18-2013, 04:51 PM
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No,no. You miss understand, I'm not saying you don't know what's going on, just saying that even when you do know... The mechanic may not really care about your input. My dad is a mechanic so, I guess I have a different perspective.

So, they swapped out your engine block, and heads?
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:15 PM
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A little Longer could be Problem this is an Interference ENGINE

We just don't have a Problem since its Gear driven Cam Shaft vs Belt and haven't heard Of to any valves hanging up YET

Tim can you explain the Degrees thing??? was that the Angle they are Milled into the Head??? I assume this is what you mean

A Bigger Valve wont seat right if it stuck out far enough it may of Hit the Piston IDK

Whatever valve was in it (Exhaust or Intake) There was enough difference to be seen upon closer inspection


I think you need to check Blowby and Compression test
Maybe a Piston is Jacked up
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLADE35 View Post
A little Longer could be Problem this is an Interference ENGINE

We just don't have a Problem since its Gear driven Cam Shaft vs Belt and haven't heard Of to any valves hanging up YET

Tim can you explain the Degrees thing??? was that the Angle they are Milled into the Head???
Yes, that's the angle the valves and seats are cut so that they seal when closed. Why they're different I don't know. Possibly some design difference in the heads.
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:25 PM
 
 
 
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