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  #1  
Old 10-16-2013, 03:19 PM
JSchubz JSchubz is offline
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56 F-100 Power Steering - CPP vs Toyota

I am looking to put power steering on my 1956 F-100. I have talked to members of a local Wisconsin F-100 club about it, and it seems most people have used the Toyota Box. No one yet has used the Classic Performance Products kit (available at Mid Fifty).

I had a lengthy conversation with Diane at Mid Fifty, and she has a lot of good things to say about the CPP Kit. It is a brand new box, vs a 30 year old rebuilt box. The Toyota box needs a special bracket, the CPP is a direct bolt on. The conversion kit they offer includes everything but the power steering pump. Diane says the CPP is the less expensive alternative.

Link to Kit

Does anyone here have any real-world experience with this conversion?

Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!

~Jeff
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2013, 04:23 PM
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I have used both setups and honestly it comes (mostly) down to money. The toy option allows you to find a used box, which can save you money but you do run the risk of getting a bad box. Historically the Toy boxes are known for their durability which lessens the potential risk. If you are buying a rebuilt Toy box setup versus a CPP setup, I would go with the CPP setup simply because it is a direct bolt in, especially if you don't have the vehicle torn apart for easier access. Also, it is my belief (which I could be wrong), the CPP setup gives a tiny bit more clearance when dealing with header issues, etc. I don't think you can go wrong with either and compared to the stock manual steering you will forever be grateful for the swap. Just my .02.

P.S. Keep in mind often CPP items can be purchased directly from CPP for a lower cost than what Mid-50 sells it for. Having said that, Mid 50 will often price match CPP, so check CPP website first before ordering from Mid50. I have had a few items come in much cheaper at CPP and Mid50 matched it.
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2013, 06:54 PM
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Go with CPP all the way, I even sold a good used Toyota box to help fund it. Photos of the install on my website.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:42 AM
JSchubz JSchubz is offline
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Thanks for the replies.

Teardropty, does one 'feel' any better than the other? Are the ratios roughly the same, as in turns lock to lock? Apparently, the CPP is 2.75 turns, I don't know what the Toy Box is. If you had to choose by drivability, which do you prefer? I tend to be the type of person to try to 'do it right the first time'.

I have priced out rebuilt Toyota boxes locally. The box was $261, plus a $112 core. Without the core, I figured ~$375 didn't seem so bad, but they can't do it without a core to rebuild. It doesn't make sense to me to use a 30+ year old box without having it rebuilt (not by me, I took apart a Scout steering box once...never again!)

I plan on using the original '56 column and steering wheel, but I was told that the large, original steering wheel will make the steering seem too quick. I'm not quite sure I understand that. I have no intentions of using my truck as a rally car, just a back-roads cruiser.

53OlderThanMe, thank you for posting those pictures. It looks like a relatively simple, and very clean install. I always like step-by-step pics like that, it makes things easier to comprehend sometimes.

As far as I understand, nearly any power steering pump will work for either setup? I will still need a pump and brackets to mount to a SBC (383). Not many boneyards around here still have old, carbureted, v-belted stuff laying around anymore...

I was leaning toward the CPP, you are helping my decision, thanks!
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:10 AM
jimcar-9 jimcar-9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53OlderThanMe View Post
Go with CPP all the way, I even sold a good used Toyota box to help fund it. Photos of the install on my website.
Thanks for the good "How to"

However how did you mount the lower end of the steering column tube?

Thanks in advance
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2013, 12:25 PM
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^^^^ I have the same question about the steering column ^^^^
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2013, 12:38 PM
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The CPP box is the same design used by Toyota (it is a recased Isusu, a Toyota design partner). I really see no reason to buy a rebuilt Toy box over a used one. If you understand the design of a recirculating ball steering box there is nearly no wear areas. The worst problem you are likely to run into with a used one is a leaky shaft seal. That's all they do in "rebuilding" one is replace the seals and check the lash, they don't open them up. Used boxes can be found for 0 - 100.00.
The one thing that concerns me with the CPP box is the tubing standoff spacers they use between the box and the frame. IMHO That concentrates a lot of force into a small area which may lead to the frame cracking around the mounting bolts, only time will tell. If I was putting one in I would replace the 3 tubes with a solid metal spacer plate either steel or aluminum.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:56 PM
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Ford used the large steering wheel to increase leverage with the manual steering, you don't need that leverage with the PS. I think a 15-16" wheel is just right. With the larger wheel if you find the steering too sensitive, you can decrease the pump pressure either with adjusting the pressure valve on the pump or using an external adjuster valve. Any pump meant for a mid to full size passenger car will work with the Toyota or CPP box, The Saginaw "canned ham" pump being the most popular and easily mounted. Avoid one meant for a luxobarge like a caddy, lincoln or imperial, (too high pressure) or one for a rack and pinion box (too low).
If you use the stock column with either PS box you will need a lower centering bushing and lower floor mount and a horn button conversion kit or external horn button switch, the OEM horn button will no longer work as is. There are several lower mounts available (see the Mid Fifty catalog) from utilitarian to billet, or you can fabricate one yourself. For a simple and cheap DIY mount use 3 steel L brackets from the hardware store with one leg bolted to the floor around the column and a worm hose clamp to clamp the other legs to the column.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSchubz View Post
Thanks for the replies.

Teardropty, does one 'feel' any better than the other? Are the ratios roughly the same, as in turns lock to lock? Apparently, the CPP is 2.75 turns, I don't know what the Toy Box is. If you had to choose by drivability, which do you prefer? I tend to be the type of person to try to 'do it right the first time'.

I plan on using the original '56 column and steering wheel, but I was told that the large, original steering wheel will make the steering seem too quick. I'm not quite sure I understand that. I have no intentions of using my truck as a rally car, just a back-roads cruiser.
Honestly, I don't "feel" much difference between the 2. I do run a 15" Grant steering wheel which feels right. 14" was too small for my tastes. Both boxes are a vast improvement over stock and the turn ratio is comparable. I do agree with AX though, I would beef up the mounting points when installing if using the CPP setup. Also, while I like the stock steering wheel look, you may find it doesn't work great with the PS setup because it would be too touchy.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2013, 02:16 PM
jimcar-9 jimcar-9 is offline
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I hope I am not to far from the intention of this thread. if thatīs the case I appologies.

For the centering of the steering shaft.

is it this one:

Column Delron Bush & Sleeve, Lower Centering - Ford F-100 Parts

Or the hightech:

Column To Shaft Lower Roller Bushing Kit - Ford F-100 Parts

You recomend?

For the column mount

I also looked at this horn conversion kit

Horn Conversion, FStock Column, Toyota Steering - Ford F-100 Parts

but as I could understand the bar looking thing with the spring loaded sliding connector was way to bulky for my taste to mount on the outside of the column. If I understood it correctly from their catalog.
Haveto figure out a nicer incognito look to it.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:11 PM
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AXracer AXracer is offline
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The bushing is more than adequate after all the column shaft is not turning at a high rate of speed, ormany revolutions, doesn't have any side loads on it to require bearings. Mid fifty has a horn button conversion adapter, don't remember it being bulky on the outside of the column.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:56 PM
jimcar-9 jimcar-9 is offline
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If you take a look at the second picture, hand sketch, on my last link. Then let me know how you belive it works, I might not understand it.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:23 PM
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53OlderThanMe 53OlderThanMe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcar-9 View Post
I hope I am not to far from the intention of this thread. if thatīs the case I appologies.

For the centering of the steering shaft.

is it this one:

Column Delron Bush & Sleeve, Lower Centering - Ford F-100 Parts

Or the hightech:

Column To Shaft Lower Roller Bushing Kit - Ford F-100 Parts

You recomend?

For the column mount

I also looked at this horn conversion kit

Horn Conversion, FStock Column, Toyota Steering - Ford F-100 Parts

but as I could understand the bar looking thing with the spring loaded sliding connector was way to bulky for my taste to mount on the outside of the column. If I understood it correctly from their catalog.
Haveto figure out a nicer incognito look to it.
I used the cheaper horn centering bushing. It's very similar to how the end of the original steering box did it. I think the pricier one is overkill. The horn is still a problem for me, thought I had it solved till I found out the entire steering column is grounded. Haven't revisited but may break down at some point and do the $150 solution from MidFifties.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:27 PM
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53OlderThanMe 53OlderThanMe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcar-9 View Post
If you take a look at the second picture, hand sketch, on my last link. Then let me know how you belive it works, I might not understand it.
It works by isolating the ground for the horn which naturally contacts the column which is grounded by contact with frame, cab, dash etc. The original horn ran the ground wire thru the end of the steering box and was a insulated wire. When the horn button was pressed it closed the ground circuit for the horn.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:12 PM
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Yes, that is correct, to better understand note that the brass ring sleeve is lined with a plastic insulator to isolate it from the steering shaft and the rectangular piece the wiper button mounts in is also a plastic insulator. To hide the parts on the outside you could mount them on the bottom or top side of the column near the floor or on top the column just below/behind the column drop, Paint the insulator to match the column or black it would only show if you were looking for it.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:12 PM
 
 
 
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