Something I have always wondered about... play along.

Down at the fork in the road, take a right and there's a manufacturing plant that builds diesel engines for all the new Ford trucks. If go take a left at the fork in the road there's a manufacturing plant that makes the V10 for Ford trucks, vans and mobile home applications.

Signed, sealed, crated and delivered to the assembly plant to be installed in Ford products, which engine would Ford pay more for? Is there anybody here that honestly believes the diesel costs Ford $5,000 to $6,000 more per unit?

This debate would and could apply to Dodge and Chevrolet as well. Is the premium being charged diesel customers one of the biggest pranks ever pulled on us by the big three?

 

The diesel package is more than just the engine itself, such as the transmission upgrade (which I could believe is a thousand or more on it's own). But also don't forget all the little things that are just slightly upgraded for the diesel package... and all those little things add up.

So does it cost $5000-$6000 more per unit... I doubt it, Ford's undoubtably making a profit there, but I could easily believe it's $3000-$4000 more per unit cost.

 

I would guess that volume plays a role here as well. Does anyone know the v10 vs diesel sales on a yearly basis? Plus... until the 6.7 Ford wasn't manufacturing the diesel in house so they likely paid a premium themselves.

 

If you go back to the 7.3 - the v10 and the 7.3 shared the transmission and most other parts as well. The cooling system, fuel delivery (minus tank),front springs, an additional battery and the engine/electronics were unique to the 7.3 but the rest of the truck was the same. With the 6.0, the diesel switched to the Torqshift while the v10 stayed with the 4R100 so I know that added to the cost.

I'm sure the diesel costs more with the added complexity but not sure it's an additional $6000 over the V10. That said..... the more I see the 6.7 trucks coming through the shops with no issues and starting to get a LOT of miles on them I really do want one. One customer is quickly approaching 100k miles on a 2011 and has had no issues just maintenance. I just can't give up the Ex (paid for....) to get a crew cab 6.7 that is going to cost me $60k for the one I'd want.

 

Just compare the weights of the engines. Just about everything in a diesel engine needs to be heavier duty to deal with the higher compression and combustion force. Add to that every internal part in the diesel is unique compared to the gasolines. Last of all you have far more gasoline engines produced which also can lower the price per unit.

Compare any other manufacturer. You'll see the same price differences.

 

Don't forget the "diesel only" displayed on the dash. That must have cost something

 

Let's look at this another way: If you own a diesel Excursion and were selling it, how much more than the equivalent gas-powered one would you take? Whatever your answer, why the difference? Is it because you paid more years ago, or because the market is willing to pay that much more for your oil burner?

Just sayin'...

Mark

 

suspension is heavier up front
trans is different/beefier
different axle gearing
entirely different PCM
entirely different wiring harness that cannot be used with other motors, vice V-10 harness that plays well with the 5.4 motor
different radiator


it adds up quickly. the motor itself is probably only a $2-3k surcharge. but then you have to figure all the incidentals and lower volume. The price difference is annoying, but I don't think there is much gouging going on. Some of course

 

I don't think the diesel engine is lower volume; I believe the inverse is true. Ford just had a press release about installing the 500,000th 6.7L engine in a Super Duty last month. There was a time where the diesel take rate was nearly 75%, but I can't find the exact figures.

EVERYTHING is more expensive on a diesel engine. My 6.7L engine was a $7,895 upgrade when I bought my 2011. But it has a DPF, SCR system, cooled EGR system, a very expen$ive high pressure fuel system, turbocharger, and lots more other added complexity. Fuel injectors are over $200 each, turbos are well over a thousand dollars, and the high pressure fuel pump is another thousand. I think the upgrade price of $7,895 is really a pretty good deal for what you're getting.

Look at any diesel repair bill for a truck made since 2003 if you want to see more. It's like buying parts for a boat...ANYTHING with "diesel" in the description adds quite a bit to the cost.

 

That's why I love my 7.3's, water pump here and a fuel pump there, here an alternator there a balljoint everywhere another alternator. But still cheap and easy fixes.

 

For my '00 7.3L Ex with 155,xxxK miles, I paid about double what a low-mileage V-10 would have run me about six years ago, because I was going to tow with it, and wanted something that I could easily mod and still get good mileage.

Now that I'm not towing with it, if I were to sell it I'd still ask double or even triple what I could get for a v-10 powered truck in similar shape, since at just under 190,000 miles on it, it still has a lot of life left and will get nearly 20mpg for that remaining time.

 

A diesel engine costs more to manufacture - that's a given due to higher compression, etc.

Thanks to that factor the durability and longevity comes into play. Automakers can (and 'need') to charge more for it because of this. Is the difference to the manufacturer as big as the difference at retail? Of course not, but it is still there.

Then there is the fact that the general public automatically thinks that diesel is better than gas, regardless of situation. This is what the manufacturers count on - the towing, the torque, the improved gas mileage. This is all great if you're doing a lot of miles towing each and every year. Otherwise (IMHO) you're literally throwing your money away.

The more modern these diesel engines get the more that can go wrong with them which is another issue. High cost of repair that comes with diesel engines I think can outweigh the benefits. You may have to spend as much to fix your diesel as it will cost me to REPLACE my V10.

In the end, we'll all have our reasons for justifying our purchase. Do I think that if you buy a diesel you're being sold a bill of goods?

Absolutely.

 

at least I am only fixing my engine and not replacing it entirely.

DOE

 

While I really like the durability and extreme torque that a diesel has and I always drool at the thought of having one, I have to admit that having a V10 has advantages in being simpler. There is just less to go wrong. With things now like the exhaust filter and fuel injection to the exhaust, dual turbos, and other things, it is getting more and more complicated than I think I would want to handle.

But I know that a diesel is a towing dream.

 

That's what I am talking about.


In the end, we'll all have our reasons for justifying our purchase. Do I think that if you buy a diesel you're being sold a bill of goods?

Absolutely.

Gasser