I have a 2010 explorer that I bought in 8/2012 with 7,000 miles on it. I had had a problem with a groaning noise and slight vibration starting at 34 mph, under load. I don't hear the noise if I let off the gas at 34. I hear it a little past 35 or so and it doesn't seem to groan again until about 60 mph or so. I also have a feeling of the all wheel drive engaging when I back out of the driveway, put it in drive and turn the wheel slightly. I took it to the dealer this week under warranty and he calls me today and says the tires are worn differently all around and that is causing the problem. He says the tires could be out as much as, or as little as 1/16 of an inch and that is what is causing the all wheel drive to catch and also the groaning noise. I understand what he is saying, but I can't believe that is the problem or more would have been written about it. Does anybody have any experiences like this? I asked the guys about rotating the tires and he said it would not matter, it would just take the problem from one end of the vehicle to the other. These tires are not worn like the truck is out of alignment, it is just normal wear. It now has about 21k on the odometer. What do you all think of this diagnoses? The guy says the PTU thinks it needs the all wheel drive and therefore engages it. This truck can also be manually put in 4 wheel drive by flipping the switch. Let me know what you think. I think this guy thinks I just fell off of the banana truck. Thanks

 

FIrst off, i think the dealer is an idiot... Second, i dont know much about the 2010. I have a 2002 and if you crank the tires hard and touch the throttle the back tires rotate at a different speed and that makes the front end engage. I have noticed it a few times, but it has to be a VERY hard turn from a stand still.

 

to the best of my knowledge, the tolerance for tire wear is 1/4" in circumference.

that is to say that all the tires must be with in 1/4" of each other, else it could cause problems such as this.

that being said, it is VERY hard to measure ... i've tried.

not sure how to help much on a 2010 ... sorry.

 

Thanks for the responses. I know about the hard turn and the front wheels "catching" because the rear wheels are turning at a different speed. This is not a hard turn. This is a slight turn out of the driveway. We back out and turn slightly, to the right at the end of the driveway, put it in drive and turn slightly, to the left to get on the road. I'm not event alking about a half turn on the wheel, either way. I just don't want to tear up something before it's out of warranty. The 3 years is up in April 2014 and the 5 years in 2016. It only has 21,000 miles on it and it seems odd that it would do this. I don't know if we are being knit picky, but this is my first "new car" (car that's new to me) in about 12 years. I had a '95 Suburban that had it's problems, but it also had 220k miles on it. The groan at 33-34 mph does sound like tires, but I want to make sure. Thanks for your replys.

 

To test the dealer's theory you should be able inflate the tires to get them all to match, irregardless of the amount of wear on individual tires. The real challenge would be, as Meborder points out, measuring this.

The easier thing to do, and probably more beneficial, although possibly more expensive, would be to connect a professional scan tool to the truck, go in to the Stability Control or ABS modules, and monitor the wheel speed real time to see if one or more wheels are reporting a different speed when cruising as well as when this binding occurs. If one or more of the wheel speeds is jumping around by a couple of MPH, that would suggest an issue with the tone ring/sensor/sensor wiring.

For the groaning noise and vibration, I'd suggest you start by replacing the differential fluid front and rear, then the transfer case fluid. With so few miles on it it's hard to imagine bearings are bad already, unless they are flat spotted from transit or maybe sitting so long.

-Rod

 

I was thinking the same thing on the bearings haveing flat spots on them. I think the dealer is going to say what ever they think I'll believe since it is warranty work. This is the 3rd time I've had it to 2 dealers and the 1st time the guys said he knew what it was, but it looked like someone had been in the front diff. He said this because the silicon was smeared and "the factory would not have done that". I took it to the ford dealer associated with the Volvo dealer I bought it from. I told them what the problem was and they could not hear it. I went in and rode with the svc writer and she heard it. They gave it to their transmission guys. He said keep driving it and bring it back when it gets worse. It's not worse, just annoying and if it is not a problem then OK. I want it fixed on Ford's dime instead of mine. I usually do all of my own work for these reasons. You just can't find a good dealer mechanic. I have been working on cars for 35 years. I have worked at 2 dealers and a few srvice stations. My father-in-law was a mechanic for 40 years. We have done some pretty amazing things in the driveway. My son is in auto motive school for college credits. I told him wha tthe guy at the dealer said and he said yeah it might be possible for it to be tires, but not likely. He is 22 and has formal training, I'm 52 and have life experience and my father-in-law is 78 and has both. I don't know what to think about these guys at the dealer.

 

I know this is a few months old but I have a similar problem with my 2010 that has 23k on it. At around 35 mph and 2500 to 3500 rpm I get a vibration and noise that can be felt in the pedals and heard. I brought to dealer and tech said this is common and explained it as the "4 wheel drive that locks in". Apparently at this speed and rpm there is some type of lock up and engagement. He assured me that it can also be seen on the scanner?? Seemed strange to me. Tech stated that he has seen about 50 of them like this - some worse than others.

Hope it helps .

 

Someone with access to Alldata might look to see if there are any TSBs on transfer case or tranny related to this.

 

Are you sure it was the 4WD system that the dealer said was the issue? At a constant 35mph and above the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) will lock up the torque converter. And I can see how that could create a noise and clunk that you could hear and feel if the engagement is aggressive.

To test my theory of the TCC lockup, try selecting the "OD Off" mode and see if you still get the noise and vibration.

Is the noise and vibration pretty much a one-time thing if you maintain a constant 35mph (more like a "clunk" than a "vibration") or is it a repetitive noise and vibration kind of like a misfire?

-Rod

 

They told me it was the sensors kicking in and causing the all wheel drive to engage. They told me is was the tires not all being the same circumference. The tech unplugged the all wheel drive under the explorer and the noise went away. They said the sensors are so sensitive that they are picking up the difference in the circumference of the tires. I spoke to a couple of other dealerships and they said they have had the same issues. When one wheel spins faster that the others, the sensors pick it up and engeg the all wheel drive. One dealer told me that they were test driving and made a left turn back into the dealer, that the wheels locked up and they barely made it out of on coming traffic. Seems to me like Ford ought to put a cut off switch so you can turn off the all wheel drive or do away with it altogether. Neither one of my Ford Rangers do this, but neither one is all wheel drive. I don't know why people can't on their own and need to depend on the factory to make these things that take away the control of the operator. The other thing that bugs me is that there is no key on the passenger side to let the wife in. The factory must think everyone has a clicker. I don't carry a clicker for every vehicle. My Rangers have keys on both sides, go figure.

 

The sensors may be sensitive, but it's the software that decides when to apply the 4 wheel drive. I did some calculations and a 1/16 inch difference in diameter would only be 1.5 tire revolutions in a mile. I doubt a tire manufacturer can make a set of tires within that tolerance. A 1/4 inch difference is just under 1%. Seems like the threshold is too tight if it can't accommodate that difference.

If it makes you feel any better, my in-laws' Subaru has the same problem. They had to buy a new set of tires when one tire got damaged. The tires weren't that old and still had lots of life left in them. Seems like a waste.

This is the problem I have with newer cars/SUVs. Taking away control from the driver and having software make (bad) decisions and deleting things like the door lock cylinder on the passenger side to save a buck. The other thing I don't like about using the fob is that it cycles all of the door locks and the lights, which means they'll break sooner. I've had to replace two light bulbs in my '07 Toyota since I bought it. I realize it's not that big a deal to replace light bulbs but I have better things to do. I haven't had to replace the light bulbs that frequently in my '97 Aerostar.

I won't buy a car/truck that won't let me select 4WD or doesn't have a two-speed transfer case. I hate to say it, but my next new SUV might be a Jeep. Of the new stuff out there, the Wrangler still seemed to be pretty old school. And for some reason, Jeeps don't depreciate as fast. I don't care about having the most comfortable ride and having 8 cup holders, nav and the rest of the garbage you don't need.

 

Still seems like a problem to me. My tires are relatively new and not cheap ones. Anyone have a quick way to disable this automatic 4wd engagement so I can test this?

How about removing the front shaft?

Thanks

 

If you remove the front shaft, make sure you mark its location relative the the flange on each end.

If this is like the earlier model transfer cases, you might be able to remove the connector that energizes the clutch in the transfer case. The problem with this approach is that there are usually other wires in the same connector. On mine, the speed sensor wires and transfer case motor position feedback also pass through the same connector. So, you could set some codes, but I would expect them to clear once everything is restored. It's best to do this if you have a wiring diagram and can tell what other wires are in the connector. Or, look for a fuse or relay that might be in the circuit that would only take out the power to the transfer case clutch.

 

This has been an issue with the BW A4WD systems since it was first introduced. The PCM has been reading the sensors directly since 2004 (I think). Too bad Ford (apparently) doesn't have the capability to adjust the threshholds a little when needed via a flash update. Maybe one of the aftermarket tuners could add something if requested??

 

Steve....please read what I just posted about my wife's 2208...click here...
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ol-issues.html
Actually copy & paste since it didn't pop in like a link....let me know what you think...
Eddie
ssetw03@yahoo.com