Mystery solved, it was my fault. The second time I pulled the transmission to remove the broken mount bolts, the pilot bearing must have fell out. I should have looked in there to make sure it was in place still. So the transmission was relying on transmission input shaft to support the clutch disk, and the pilot was rolling around in the flywheel. I don't know why I didn't hear it until the slave failed again... I also managed to bend some of the fingers on the pressure plate. When I installed the pilot I hit it in tight with a block of wood, I guess I will use Loctite this time..

Everything is fine though, no play in the input shaft of the transmission. Just have to buy a new pilot, warranty the slave, and install the new clutch/pressure plate.

 

Yup. That would do it. Won't really hurt the input shaft as the clutch can't go very far and it is only when the clutch is pushed in as the clutch supports the shaft when it is engaged. But each time you use the clutch it comes back to the flywheel in a different spot - more or less centered. So sometimes it is balanced and sometimes way out of balance.

 

Sounds good. Maybe the engine will run a little bit smoother when everything is fixed. It seemed like it had a little more vibration than in the bread van. The pilot was a little beat up so I ordered a new one which should arrive Tuesday.

I pulled the slave and got a new one. I wasn't expecting the way this slave failed though. The knock I thought I was hearing was from the slave physically failing (it wasn't able to hold itself up to the pressure plate evenly), rather than a bad seal like last time:



...and the new slave is actually different this time. Same box, different slave (it does not have the AP logo). It appears to be better quality as long as the quick connect fitting is reliable.

 

You gotta get that slave issue resolved. Kinda hard to drive it without the use of the clutch. I'm happy I went with a trans that uses an external slave, as I'd really hate to repeatedly drop that 200LB cast iron monster.........
I dunno what that ZF weighs, but it is at least an aluminum case.......

 

Let's put it this way - I can pick up and move an NP435/bellhousing combo. And I can do the same with a C6. Not so the ZF5.

 

Me and my boy managed to pick up the NV4500, to get it out of the truck bed. Thankfully, just the main case is cast iron, the bellhousing and tailshaft housing are aluminum. If they were cast iron, I bet that would add 100lbs......
The aluminum bellhousing is close to 25lbs or 30lbs by itself. I figure it's got about the same mass as an FE intake......

 

So I got the transmission back in, clutch engagement and everything is better with the new clutch/pressure plate and everything. It makes some noise in neutral without the clutch pressed, with the clutch pressed it makes no noise at all. I was kind of worried about it because I didn't remember it before, but maybe I just couldn't tell because of other noises. You really only hear it inside the cab. I did a search and other people note the same thing behind the 4bt.. so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. I also started working on the exhaust, didn't really make it anywhere. I need to get it to hang straight without putting stress on the turbo downpipe.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...Loud-ZF5-speed

 

Sounds like the input shaft rattling a bit. Or the clutch plate-to-input shaft clearance on the splines allowing the clutch to rattle or chatter on the splines a bit.

 

The ZF5 is known for being a bit noisy when idling in neutral with the clutch out. It's even noisier behind a diesel, and the 4BT only having half the cyls that the 6.9/7.3 has makes it even more noticable. The 4BT is known for being a bit "shakey", like most any 4 cyl engine.

Add extra insulation to the firewall/floor and it won't be as noticable. There's nothing you can do to eliminate the noise. Ford tried the dual mass flywheel to reduce the noise on the diesel trucks with a ZF5, but that brought it's own issues. If you go to the IDI and PSD sections, you'll find plenty of discussions concerning the DMF to SMF (dual mass vs single mass flywheels) and the people who done the SMF conversion all state there is more noise in neutral at idle after doing this.
The underlying cause, is the flywheel/crankshaft speeds up/slows down with every cyl that fires, and the "slack" between the gear mesh inside the trans is "slapping" back/forth. Even with a flywheel that weighs ~75 LBS, the crankshaft speed will fluctuate between cyl firings, more so at lower RPM.

 

Yeah, I have read about that. My flywheel weighs in at 49lbs, and is behind a 4-cylinder which is naturally a little shaky. I still need to replace the injector seals to see if that helps smooth it out. I could try overfilling it a little more, I have 4-quarts in it and the tag calls for 3.4qts. It is more noticeable with the exhaust hooked up but I would rather not have the exhaust being loud. I'll deal with the noise. I haven't done anything else today other than replace the belt. This is what it sounds like:

 

My engine has the same exact setup at the dowel pin. I believe all VE pump engines have that same front housing. Even the VP pump 24V engine had that raised area around the dowel pin. Makes me wonder if they didn't dust off the old VE pump housing molds to use for the VP pump engines..... I know they both use a 3 bolt/stud mounting flange, while the P pump uses a 4 bolt/stud flange.
I made a tab, drilled the hole, and then added 2 x 90* bends so it sits flush behind the bolt and over the pin.
BTW, my pin was almost flush with the outside edge of the housing, so it was only a matter of time before before it would have come out.....


On another note, have you got any pics showing how you modded the tank/sender for the return line? I have a pretty good idea of how I want to do this, but I am open for suggestions of an easier method.
I only have a single tank (front), though I may add a rear tank at a later date. If I do, I may just go with the 30+ gallon option, and delete the front tank.

 

I was just going to post a little update and I never realized that you posted Rogue_Wulff, I guess I was away from the computer that week. Thanks for the extra info on the dowel.

On the fuel return, originally I drilled a hole in the sender and tried to use brass fittings to make a line go to the bottom of the tank. That was a waste of time, the sending unit has such little room and who knows if it would hold a good seal. I bought a piece of 5/16 brake line, cut off the ends and bent it a little for fit, and then welded it to the sending unit for the return, and inside the tank it has a piece of rubber hose on it to go closer to the bottom.

Unfortunately, I just filled it up and it's leaking from somewhere. I don't know if it's the vent at the top, a pinhole in my weld, or the rubber seal itself for the unit...

I have some changes to do. The throttle is really sensitive when driving slow when there are bumps or taking off. I need to add some extra springs to return the throttle and see if that helps. Second, the speedometer is off a bit, I didn't realize it was that much. At 35 on the speedo my GPS shows anywhere from 47-50 mph. My current driven gear has 19 teeth I believe. It seems that I can get one with 16 teeth which would still not be enough. It looks like changing the gear in the transmission to an 8 (from 7) and the speedometer gear to 16 from 19 would be necessary.. which I'm not going to do...

 

I haven't yet tackled the return line issue, but the way you went is pretty much what I was planning to try.

The touchy throttle is something I am kinda worried about. The VE pump throttle shaft has a lot less total movement than the throttle shaft on a carb. Dodge used a intermediate throttle bracket assembly that had a longer arm on it. The cable from the pedal attached near the far end of the arm, and there was another linkage attached closer to the pivot point, which went to the pump lever. This tamed down the touchy throttle due to how little the pump link moved in relation to the pedal link.
I didn't get this assembly with the engine, so I plan to attempt making my own.

A pic of my KDP solution.

 

Can you graft a longer arm on the throttle shaft?

 

Doable, but not easily. Much easier to just make a bracket with a longer arm, and 2 holes for the throttle linkage.

The throttle shaft on the IP has maybe 30 degrees of total movement, unlike a carb or throttle body that has right at 90 degree movement. This is where the "touchy" throttle action comes from.