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  #1  
Old 09-23-2013, 11:37 PM
Pigman54 Pigman54 is offline
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Performance upgrades question

Hey everyone, new guy here and I have a few questions. I have a 2003 7.3 F350 that's completely stock except for 4" straight pipe turbo-back exhaust, Autometer boost and pyro gauges, and DP-Tuner F5. My goal is to get the truck up to 450-500hp but I'm not exactly sure what all I will need to reach my goal. I know that I will atleast need bigger injectors, new turbo, HPOP, and new fuel system and have tried figuring out what to get on my own but I'm getting kind of overwhelmed and confused by all the options lol. Now for the questions:

1. What size injectors should I get? The truck is my daily driver but would also like to take it out to the drag strip every now and then.

2. Which turbo should I get? It looks like the Garrett GTP38R is a good option but I'm not sure about all the options such as ceramic coated turbine housing, billett compressor wheel, 1.0 vs. 1.15 A/R, etc...

3. What fuel system components do I need? At first I thought I just needed a new fuel pump but then came across regulated return systems and fuel bowl deletes and now I have no idea what I need.

4. Will I need to upgrade the transmission? I'm hoping to be able to afford a BTS tranny eventually but unfortunately for now I'm stuck with my factory 4R100. Just wondering if it is NECESSARY to upgrade the tranny.

I'm in college so I'd like to go the cheapest route possible without compromising quality. Please let me know if there's anything else I need to upgrade in order to reach my goal which I'm sure there is. Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:03 AM
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Right off the bat....at 450-500 hp, you will HAVE to upgrade the tranny. Your stock tranny will die a miserable death.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:38 AM
Pigman54 Pigman54 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicmike View Post
Right off the bat....at 450-500 hp, you will HAVE to upgrade the tranny. Your stock tranny will die a miserable death.
That's what I was afraid of. I just found the BTS for $4200 shipped from Diesel Power Products which isn't nearly as much as I thought they were. Looks like the tranny just got bumped up to #1 priority.
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigman54 View Post
That's what I was afraid of. I just found the BTS for $4200 shipped from Diesel Power Products which isn't nearly as much as I thought they were. Looks like the tranny just got bumped up to #1 priority.
Are you sure that's a BTS(Brian's Truck Shop) Transmission? It's about 1300 less than the one I installed last year...and I didn't see it on their site, just BD transmissions.

As for power you are wanting.

I would think somewhere around 250/200's on the injectors, 38R would be pushed on the fringe in my opinion, might want to look into T4 setups as there are many more turbos available, something like the 42 series if your sticking with Garrett, or BW S400 series. At least paralleled Fuel pumps to supply the fuel, and probably big oil too. The A/R's are the air ratios on the turbine housings, generally speaking a larger turbine housing is slower to spool but will keep the EGT's lower as well as drive pressures, the keys when matching housings is to get the back pressure and boost to be as close to 1:1 as possible. More to consider with a higher horsepower build would be girdles or partial filling of the block to strengthen it, as well as upgraded valve springs. There are many other littler things to help try to keep it more reliable as well.
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2013, 03:35 AM
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AC160/100 will get you to 400 HP with no fuel mods needed, but that extra 50-100 HP crosses an expensive line. In order to get that much fuel into the truck, you need injectors that are very difficult to tune for daily good manners. I'm not talking about a touchy throttle, I'm talking about jerking at light loads on the highway. You would need a bigger fuel system (including the lines) and much bigger air to burn clean. The 38R is great for 400HP, but I'm not so sure about 450-500 - It may be time to think a T4 connection. The 4R100 is pathetic with stock power - HD4R100, BTS, or John Wood are viable options, but BTS has the strongest rep on this forum. Ladder bars helped with my daily driver 375 HP tune, let alone my race tune. Reliability? At that HP limit? Not with PMR rods. You need to pull the engine and have forged rods installed.

400 HP makes for a very fun DD (relatively inexpensive), 450-500 HP makes an expensive race truck you tolerate on your daily drive.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:01 AM
Pigman54 Pigman54 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAlsPSD View Post
Are you sure that's a BTS(Brian's Truck Shop) Transmission? It's about 1300 less than the one I installed last year...and I didn't see it on their site, just BD transmissions.
I stand corrected. Looks like I read it wrong. I knew it was too good to be true.

Thanks for the input guys. This truck is my daily driver so I think the 160/100 injectors might be the way to go. With the 160/100 injectors, would it be better to get a new turbo before the injectors? Or would I be okay if I installed the injectors and did the turbo later? I would also like to upgrade the fuel system eventually so what fuel system parts do I need exactly? Regulated return, fuel pump, etc...
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2013, 10:28 AM
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Number 1: Don't take any one person's word on what works best for you (especially me) - it's your blood and treasure, and you have to live with the results.

My experience with these sticks:

Fuel - Doing the Hutch mod is paramount, with an in-line strainer before the fuel pump (pre-filtration killed my fuel pressure at WOT). I have Riffraff diesel's FRx for a fuel return and that's getting the job done, but others may hold a different opinion on this mod. I have a new OEM pump, after a Herculean amount of research to find the best and most reliable unit.

Oil - I have a T500 HPOP, but my old HPOP was weak and it was due before the new sticks (new HPOP lines at the same time). My ICP sensor and IPR gave out at different stages, so they are new. AE (or other OBDII software) was indispensable during this time.

Air - I had the Ford AIS to begin with and I added the 4" exhaust... this helped turbo spool-up more than I expected. With stock sticks, stock turbo, and hot tunes, soot was an issue... so I did big sticks and 38R at the same time. I still get a puff and haze in my bigger tunes, but only when Pedal snuggles up to Mat. There is no such thing as too much air, but too little is a common problem (heat and smoke) when adding fuel.

I did a write-up on powering up (Custom Tunes link in my signature)... it gets good reviews, so it's worth a click.

Rolling the throttle at 400 HP

Click the image to open in full size.
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  #8  
Old 09-24-2013, 11:24 AM
TKegs763 TKegs763 is offline
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Hey Pigman54, Rich is correct about the Hutch mod. He also has a ton of knowledge about everything else on these trucks. If you want to come up to my place and do the Hutch mod, I will be more than willing to help you out. I got the SD kit and it was a breeze.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:21 PM
Pigman54 Pigman54 is offline
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Thanks for the help, Rich. I think the Hutch mod, Riffraff FRx, and Ford AIS intake are the first on the list. Where could I get a HD4R100 for a good price? I've called several places about them and none of them knew what I was talking about. A local shop also told me that it's not a good idea to send my injectors in before getting the new ones and that I should go the core charge route. Is there any truth to this?

Thanks for the offer TKegs. As much as I'd like to come up there, I really dont feel like making a 9-10 hour round trip. I just read through Guzzle's Hutch mod install and it looks sort of difficult right now but I'm sure once I dive into it then I'll find that it's actually not that bad. My next door neighbor is a mechanic so he'll probably be able to help me out if I run into any trouble.

I guess it'd also be a good idea to add Trans. Temp and fuel pressure gauges? Are these things that I could do myself? I had a local shop install my boost and pyro gauges as well as my chip and it wound up costing $550 that I didn't have. Luckily the owner was nice and knocked it down to $400 which I barely had. I'd like to avoid paying that again if possible.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
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Keep visiting this forum, and you won't need to pay anyone to do anything for you again. I'm two hours away, and there are several members in Houston that are EXTREMELY knowledgeable on these engines. Putting in trans temp and fuel psi gauges are easy and straight forward. Very little wrenching involved. Screw in two sensors and run some wiring. Many write ups in here with pics on how to do it. Buy your gauges, and holler at me. I may be able to swing over and help you out on that.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:01 PM
Pigman54 Pigman54 is offline
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So would it be better to do the Riffraff FRx or Hutch mod first or does it matter? Same with the injectors and turbo. Does it matter which one I do first?
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:11 PM
Pigman54 Pigman54 is offline
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Also how would a stock turbo with a Wicked Wheel 2 compare to a 38R?
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigman54 View Post
So would it be better to do the Riffraff FRx or Hutch mod first or does it matter? Same with the injectors and turbo. Does it matter which one I do first?
If you can only do one I would suggest the FRx. Also you might want to call Riffraff about the hutch mod. I think I heard they have something coming out for it totally new.

On injectors and turbo if you have to wait a while in between I would suggest turbo first, then injectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigman54 View Post
Also how would a stock turbo with a Wicked Wheel 2 compare to a 38R?
The 38R will move more air no matter what you do to a stock turbo. Here is a link on a good price. I think they are still offering free shipping from the Labor Day sale.

Riffraff Diesel: Garrett GTP38R PowerMax Ball Bearing Turbo

Here are gauge install instructions as well.

http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/mm5/RE...ISSPRO_EV2.pdf
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:05 PM
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dont go with 160/100's aka stage 2's.....either go with a nice stage 1 which will be 160/146 or 175/146 or jump straight to "stage 3's" or better known as hybrids.....238 or 250 injectors.....hybrids use less oil and are easier to tune......and skip the 38r....go with an h2e or equivalent......
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indyF-350psd View Post
dont go with 160/100's aka stage 2's.....either go with a nice stage 1 which will be 160/146 or 175/146
Bill, I think you mixed up your "2's" and "1's" and got 'em swapped outta place.

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Old 09-24-2013, 10:13 PM
 
 
 
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