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  #166  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:56 PM
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Sounds like your water pump, timing cover and balancer all came from the off world. My timing cover, and water pump both have a paper gasket and everything on mine lines up perfectly. What brand is the water pump?
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  #167  
Old 02-22-2014, 12:01 AM
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Water pumps a Bosch. I just a couple motor head buddies over here looking at it and they're scratching their heads too.
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  #168  
Old 02-22-2014, 12:08 AM
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Do you have an old water pump for that engine? if so. Measure the shaft distance from the front of the shaft to the front side of the mounting boss for the fan on the pump. That may not be back far enough, causing the pulley misalignment.
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  #169  
Old 02-22-2014, 12:13 AM
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I checked that, it's the same. I'm gonna sleep on it.
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  #170  
Old 02-22-2014, 06:10 AM
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You need either a new balancer or a Speedi Sleeve repair kit to give the new seal a smooth surface to ride on.
Hopefully the FMS hasn't been nicked already.
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  #171  
Old 02-22-2014, 08:23 AM
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2. Water pump has been changed, but the measurement from the back to the front of each pump is within 1/32 of an inch.

3. When I took the water pump off the timing cover originally I don't know if there was a paper gasket( 1/16" maybe) between them. I know for a fact there was no paper gasket in between the timing cover and the block( another 1/16").

So with the two gaskets and the discrepancy of the 1/32" between the old water pump and the new you get maybe a 1/8"+ of stuff holding the water pump out further.


Are we confused yet?
I think I'm just confused! The water pump isn't out to far the HB is. Late night last night!
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  #172  
Old 02-22-2014, 10:37 AM
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What if I brought the balancer to the machine shop and have 1/8"+ removed from it? That's obviously a last resort thing, but the seal will sit on a different part of the HB and shouldn't leak. I'll set up the power steering pump and see where the pulley is in relation to the crank pulley. I tried doing the same thing with the old alternator but it's hard to tell where it lines up. I had trouble trying to take the pulley off the alt and mushroomed the shaft and can't get the nut back on to tighten the pulley.
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  #173  
Old 02-23-2014, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
I found a spacer to use with the installation tool and I'm trying to get the harmonic balancer on I think it's all the way on but the pulleys don't seem to line up correctly.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

I measured the depth of the stub on the back of the balancer and I don't think it can go in any more. Why don't the pulleys line up? Am I missing something?
On that top photo it dos not seem like it is on all the way. I would try taking the key out, polish lightly with some emery, clean, oil and put on using the bolt/washer. It should slide on farther...
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  #174  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:13 AM
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I set up the power steering pump temporarily to check the pulleys out and the water pump pulley lines up with the PS pulley.

Your right, it doesn't seem like its on all the way, but it will not go on any further. It doesn't have enough depth for the balancer to go in. The balancer is 2 1/8". The hole around the crank snout is 2" deep. It can not possibly go in any more.

I'm willing to bet anything that the timing gear on the Edelbrock set is thicker. Now, the evidence of where the seal was riding says its in the same spot it was pre build. The FMS was replaced also, so maybe the gear is keeping the HB out and the aftermarket seal has a different reveal than the stock one, coincidentally making the seal fall on the same spot.

I'm going to make a trip to the parts store and see if they have a stock replacement timing set and an Edelbrock one and compare the two.

If someone has a Ford timing set lying around could you throw a measuring tape on it and let me know the thickness?
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  #175  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:30 AM
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What makes you think the balancer has to be flush with the tip of the crank?
The bolt and washer pull it on until it bottoms.

You've already said that the scoring on the balancer is lined up with the lip of the seal.
If there's a problem it's not with the timing set and it was there before you started this project.

Is the slinger properly in place?
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  #176  
Old 02-23-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk View Post
What makes you think the balancer has to be flush with the tip of the crank?
The bolt and washer pull it on until it bottoms.

You've already said that the scoring on the balancer is lined up with the lip of the seal.
If there's a problem it's not with the timing set and it was there before you started this project.

Is the slinger properly in place?
Originally I thought that they shouldn't be flush, because if they were then the washer would bottom out on both the crank and balancer and there wouldn't be as much pressure holding the balancer on. Someone else posted that they should be flush, so I kinda went with that. Does that make sense?

I don't think there was any issue to begin with. If there was an issue, you would think the belts would squeal and such, but they didn't and the belts all ran smooth and true.

There wasn't an oil slinger.
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  #177  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:09 AM
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I guess your engine is different.
Most timing gear sets I've seen show a slinger behind the seal.

Definitely replace the damper or put a repair sleeve on it before you bolt it down.
Make sure to lube the seal too.
They don't like to be started dry.
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  #178  
Old 02-23-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk View Post
I guess your engine is different.
Most timing gear sets I've seen show a slinger behind the seal.

Definitely replace the damper or put a repair sleeve on it before you bolt it down.
Make sure to lube the seal too.
They don't like to be started dry.
I installed the timing set using the Haynes manual and it read "install the oil slinger (if so equipped) over the nose of the crankshaft".

So I assume some have them and some don't.
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  #179  
Old 02-23-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
I assume some have them and some don't.
I'm agreeing with you...

I asked about it while trying to understand why you seem to have an alignment problem.
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  #180  
Old 02-23-2014, 01:37 PM
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I'm agreeing with you...

I asked about it while trying to understand why you seem to have an alignment problem.
Sorry, I didn't mean it like that, I should have put a smiley face

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk View Post
What makes you think the balancer has to be flush with the tip of the crank?
The bolt and washer pull it on until it bottoms.

You've already said that the scoring on the balancer is lined up with the lip of the seal.
If there's a problem it's not with the timing set and it was there before you started this project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
Originally I thought that they shouldn't be flush, because if they were then the washer would bottom out on both the crank and balancer and there wouldn't be as much pressure holding the balancer on. Someone else posted that they should be flush, so I kinda went with that. Does that make sense?
This contradicts my previous statement about taking 1/8" of the balancer. I can't take that much of because the bolt and washer will bottom out on the crank and there might be play in and out.

So I agree now that the timing set can't be the culprit

What else could this be? Am I going to have to shim all the other pulleys and buy a balancer? How much is a repair sleeve?
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:37 PM
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