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  #31  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sammie0126 View Post
I had them do that - nothing loose. I will check the toe measurement later. I'm not good at eyeball methods, but I think I can do the measure point on wheels roll it forward and measure again. But it was aligned after the adjustable track bar and was fine, so skeptical the alignment is off since nothing has been touched on the front suspension since then, if it's off then well I got an issue I haven't found yet. Will also strap down the pitman and do the shaft turn again, tell me what exactly I'm looking for in that test? I immobilize the pitman arm - and turn the shaft by hand, the point is that with the pitman locked down - do I have the same amount of shaft movement - more or less? That the point?

Thanks for all your help - on my rep list when I get out of jail.
Yes that's the point. I am assuming the engine was running, good lighting was there, and the wheel was jiggled hard. Getting back 20 feet and sighting across the wheels front to back is easy or have someone else do it. Running a string from rear to front is easy also, so is measuring in front and back of front wheels and it's even easier with a raised 4wd. It's all good to know for the future also so you don't have to run to the aligner every time you hit a large hard object. I have ways of checking camber also but many in here would laugh about it. I don't know how long ago you checked the tow or how well it was done.
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:13 PM
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Yes that's the point. I am assuming the engine was running, good lighting was there, and the wheel was jiggled hard. Getting back 20 feet and sighting across the wheels front to back is easy or have someone else do it. Running a string from rear to front is easy also, so is measuring in front and back of front wheels and it's even easier with a raised 4wd. It's all good to know for the future also so you don't have to run to the aligner every time you hit a large hard object. I have ways of checking camber also but many in here would laugh about it. I don't know how long ago you checked the tow or how well it was done.

Yep, yep and yep.
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:24 PM
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Is it possible you're pitman arm is loose?. Also maybe when the pump let go something ended up inside the box.
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  #34  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:49 PM
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Yep, yep and yep.
If you still get 1/4 turn after the arm lock-up I would say it is the box.............but check the wheel toe.
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  #35  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by flatlandhillbilly View Post
Is it possible you're pitman arm is loose?. Also maybe when the pump let go something ended up inside the box.
Hmmm never considered that possibility.

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Originally Posted by EXv10 View Post
If you still get 1/4 turn after the arm lock-up I would say it is the box.............but check the wheel toe.
ok will dig out a ratchet strap and give it yank tomorrow and see.
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  #36  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:52 PM
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i had an alignment done after my box was installed and i checked my steering system at that time. since then i replaced a steering pump that died but other than stiff arm steer was of no issue. just recently i had a nail in my tire that i failed to catch in time before starting to cause tread separation. that was when the issues started. i replaced the bad tire, had the 3 tires removed balanced checked rotated and installed. new tire is on the rear so no tread depth differences isnt an issue. then i replaced both tie rods as they had slight play and the problems persist.

i have the same issues where driving straight lines is a hassle again, constantly overcorrecting itself and will occasionally jerk the truck slightly. when i installed the box my steering was beautiful and response was immediate.
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  #37  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:40 AM
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Christina, there IS excessive play in that box!

There should be very very very (thats not much) play between the input shaft and pitman shaft. In fact you shouldn't be able to see any play especially in a new/rebuilt box. The 175K miles box in my X has less play than that.

I can't find a good video at all on the proper way to adjust a new/rebuilt boxes play. They are adjusted on a bench with a torque wrench (sort of) and are adjusted till resistance is seen then backed off a slight slight amount. The result should be a tight box with no visible play between the input and output shafts. 1/2" of steering wheel movement SHOULD move the pitman arm.
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  #38  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:52 AM
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No issues found with mine, and everything is very tight (or much tighter than it had been before with the factory one). I've only put about 2k on it of mostly highway miles, but next time it's out I'll try to look for any play.
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  #39  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:50 AM
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My stock ps box has 1/8 turn at the input and tracks very well with a tight steering wheel at 165k miles and I haven't had to adjust it yet.
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  #40  
Old 09-09-2013, 12:09 PM
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Ok with the pitman arm strapped down as tight as I can get it, it doesn't move except a tiny blip and this is of me turning it with my hand at the shaft. I can't get much torque behind it but it's moving way more than it should IMHO.



I have asked Harvey at RH to warranty this box.

Checked my toe settings using the pin in the tire and plumb string - making marks on my garage floor. Front and rear of the front tires at the exact same location.

I get 69 7/8 front of the tires and 70 1/16 at the rear. So by my math my total toe in is .1875 or 3/16 of an inch toe in which if my algebra is still good is that is .32 degrees toe in. That might be my issue because if my measurements are to be trusted that way too far in. My total toe on my last alignment sheet from 6/21/13 is +.07 with .04 DS and .03 PS. Am I doing this wrong?
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  #41  
Old 09-09-2013, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sammie0126 View Post
Ok with the pitman arm strapped down as tight as I can get it, it doesn't move except a tiny blip and this is of me turning it with my hand at the shaft. I can't get much torque behind it but it's moving way more than it should IMHO.



I have asked Harvey at RH to warranty this box.

Checked my toe settings using the pin in the tire and plumb string - making marks on my garage floor. Front and rear of the front tires at the exact same location.

I get 69 7/8 front of the tires and 70 1/16 at the rear. So by my math my total toe in is .1875 or 3/16 of an inch toe in which if my algebra is still good is that is .32 degrees toe in. That might be my issue because if my measurements are to be trusted that way too far in. My total toe on my last alignment sheet from 6/21/13 is +.07 with .04 DS and .03 PS. Am I doing this wrong?
It looks like quite a bit of movement with the arm secured and now you have some ammunition for Charlie since you have eliminated all downstream slop. You can probably turn that shaft easier with a big pair of vice grips.

You are making that toe in check too complicated. With a string you can hook it around the back of the back tire, pull it tight across the front tire, and take a look at the front tire/string. If it has about 1/8 to 1/4" clearance at the front you are good. With the sighting method can can quickly see if the front wheels are toed in and approximately how much. With the measuring method you can butt the tape to the rear of the front wheel and measure at the back and at the same place in the front, again 1/8 to 1/4" difference should be good. This is mainly to see if your wheels are not way out of whack but I have been doing my own backyard aligning since day one and it's really not rocket science.
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  #42  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by EXv10 View Post
It looks like quite a bit of movement with the arm secured and now you have some ammunition for Charlie since you have eliminated all downstream slop. You can probably turn that shaft easier with a big pair of vice grips.

You are making that toe in check too complicated. With a string you can hook it around the back of the back tire, pull it tight across the front tire, and take a look at the front tire/string. If it has about 1/8 to 1/4" clearance at the front you are good. With the sighting method can can quickly see if the front wheels are toed in and approximately how much. With the measuring method you can butt the tape to the rear of the front wheel and measure at the back and at the same place in the front, again 1/8 to 1/4" difference should be good. This is mainly to see if your wheels are not way out of whack but I have been doing my own backyard aligning since day one and it's really not rocket science.
Well update - Harvey at RH says they will be happy to warranty the box, he did ask to see the slop with the engine running. I was happy to send him that video as well, since I have several now through my posts here trying to nail down the problem. I also sent him the one of the arm to wheel movement so he could see it wasn't downstream of the arm.

Decided to wait on the double checking that toe since it sounds like I'm putting in another gearbox next week and there's a better than even change I will end up having to recenter my wheel so will use the "simple" method and adjust the toe at the same time if needed.

If I have learned one thing on here, it's do one thing at time. Drive it for a day or so and then move on, so I can tell what fixed the problem. Damn I've kicked myself so many times for not waiting and combining things.

Oh and got me an impact gun finally! So with no rust to deal with and some power it should make this next box install a breeze.
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  #43  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sammie0126 View Post
Well update - Harvey at RH says they will be happy to warranty the box, he did ask to see the slop with the engine running. I was happy to send him that video as well, since I have several now through my posts here trying to nail down the problem. I also sent him the one of the arm to wheel movement so he could see it wasn't downstream of the arm.

Decided to wait on the double checking that toe since it sounds like I'm putting in another gearbox next week and there's a better than even change I will end up having to recenter my wheel so will use the "simple" method and adjust the toe at the same time if needed.

If I have learned one thing on here, it's do one thing at time. Drive it for a day or so and then move on, so I can tell what fixed the problem. Damn I've kicked myself so many times for not waiting and combining things.

Oh and got me an impact gun finally! So with no rust to deal with and some power it should make this next box install a breeze.
Good! Yea, fixing one part of a problem at a time is a good idea, it's one of the things you learn if you do a lot of mechanicing. Otherwise you can get the symptoms confused and turn it into more frustration.
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  #44  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:47 PM
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Oh man...I've been looking forward getting an RH box based on my impression these things were by leaps and bounds improved on the engineering of the box when compared to stock. I'm one of those who appreciate quality and good engineering (and made in USA) and am willing to pay extra to get just that. But I get very disappointed when one of those parameters aren't met. I hope this thread is not describing the typical RH box and that the RH is in fact a better engineered (with that I mean improved as compared to OEM) and higher quality product.
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  #45  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:53 PM
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Oh man...I've been looking forward getting an RH box based on my impression these things were by leaps and bounds improved on the engineering of the box when compared to stock. I'm one of those who appreciate quality and good engineering (and made in USA) and am willing to pay extra to get just that. But I get very disappointed when one of those parameters aren't met. I hope this thread is not describing the typical RH box and that the RH is in fact a better engineered (with that I mean improved as compared to OEM) and higher quality product.
There are a handful of people who have issues; the majority are very happy and have no slop problems. I think if you compared all red head owners to all stock ford owners with the same truck, you would find many more stock gearboxes with slop than you will red heads. All manufacturers are going to have some quality issues. What makes me go back to a supplier is when they stand by their work, if it's not right they fix it or replace it and it appears that RH is going to stand by their product.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:53 PM
 
 
 
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