Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van SPONSORED BY:

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #61  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:03 PM
roadrunner01 roadrunner01 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 271
roadrunner01 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I believe what you and others are seeing is not casting sand, but tiny bits of the block due to insufficiant cavitation protection.

The 7.3's were very bad at this and all diesels are prone to this to some degree. Its caused by the block vibrating and tiny bubbles form in the coolant passageways. Every time a cylinder fires these bubbles explode so to speak, eventually taking small parts of the cast with it.

This is the danger switching to an ELC type coolant after a VC-9/Restore + flush, it completely removes all cavitation protection and with this type of coolant it takes up to 5,000 mi. for the cast iron to be completely protected.
With a HOAT coolant with low silicates protection happens almost immediately, which gives it quite an advantage over other formulations.

This may or may have not happened in your situation, but it does happen and the cavitation protection shouldn't be removed unless there is some sort of failure internally requiring it.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:49 PM
roadrunner01 roadrunner01 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 271
roadrunner01 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Cylinder Liner Cavitation Erosion
The cavitation erosion that is found in diesel engines on the exterior side of the cylinder liners (wet) has been a theme of
investigation by engine and corresponding component manufacturers, even though no definite manner of eliminating
the problem has been found. See item 1.
The degree and size of erosion or decay as well as its form and
distribution on the affected zones can vary from engine to engine
and inclusively from cylinder to cylinder within the same engine.
The affected areas form vertical strips or patches sometimes in alignment
with the thrust face of the piston within the cylinder, or also formed
immediately over the top sealing ring of the liner. The erosion can
penetrate the wall of the cylinder and permit the flow of antifreeze/coolant
to the oil or vise versa.
The cavitation erosion is caused by excess in harmonic vibrations of the
engine and in some cases by loose fitting liners that result in a fast
formation and implosion of small vapor bubbles within the coolant which
attack the cylinders’ liner wall. The vibration in combination with collapsing
bubbles produces an erosive effect over the surface of the liner’s exterior
face. This occurs as the piston moves up and down within the cylinder
causing vibration especially over the area of thrust in the cylinder liner.
We can say that the wall of the sleeve, which comes in contact with the
coolant, quickly moves inwards and outwards striking these vapor
formations. During this process, tiny bubbles are formed that implode or
collapse violently producing shock waves against the liner’s wall. The results
of these implosions at the impact area of the liner’s wall have been calculated
to reach over 10,000º F with pressures of over 10,000 psi.
A specific material, which would prevent cavitation erosion within reasonable cost, has not yet been found.
Nevertheless, some coatings can be applied to delay cavitation erosion until it is time for major engine repairs.
In order to reduce or prevent cavitation, manufacturer recommendations should be followed.
In many cases, cavitation can be avoided by reducing harmonic vibrations. For example, by making sure the
injection complies with the manufacturer’s specifications, the engine’s speed is governed according to the
manufacturer’s data and that the control functions. Also, do not underestimate the importance of correct
clearances between liner and cylinder blocks; incorrect liner fit is a serious contributor to liner vibration resulting
in cavitation erosion.
Engine manufacturers have specific additives for the coolant called SCA (supplementary cooling additive). These
additives will form a protective coating over the cylinder liner, which is exposed to the coolant, therefore reducing
cavitation damage. With time, additive concentration reduces in the system, consequently making it necessary
to follow system maintenance recommendations in order to keep the adequate levels. The following points will
be supplied:
• pH control to avoid corrosion
• Water hardness control to avoid mineral deposit formation
• Cavitation protection
In all cases, it is required that all manufacturer’s recommendations regarding coolants, base additives, additives,
coolant filters as well as maintenance schedules should be strictly adhered to or followed at all times.

I found this, its a brief explanation into this subject.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:10 PM
Yahiko's Avatar
Yahiko Yahiko is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Spanaway
Posts: 9,196
Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.
Well one thing I should of added to my post is the easy to tell if it sand or metal
is a magnet. Put the "sand" in a baggie and place a magnet on the bag. Lift and
see if the bag sticks or not.

Sean
__________________
Three Happy Cats "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time!"
Mods Blue Spring, High Idle(BCP), Coolant Filter,SCT from http://www.gearheadautomotiveperformance.com/
HFCM Drain Plug, Nav System, Leveling Kit, FIXED the Dead Backup Camera, HID Fog 3000K & Driving Lights 4300K
6.0l Forum Map : Ask me About It
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:14 PM
Misky6.0's Avatar
Misky6.0 Misky6.0 is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Within Sight of Orlando
Posts: 3,538
Misky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputationMisky6.0 has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahiko View Post
Well one thing I should of added to my post is the easy to tell if it sand or metal
is a magnet. Put the "sand" in a baggie and place a magnet on the bag. Lift and
see if the bag sticks or not.

Sean
Unless the metal is aluminum..
__________________
'05 EB Excursion 2wd 6.0 3.73/LS Mich LTX M/S2, Diesel Kleen (gray bottle), FICM w/atlas40 from Ed, RAS, Read Head Steering, scangaugeII w/Blendmount, '08+ Tow Mirrors, Magnefine PS filter, SPAtechnique Dual-Gauge (FP & Volt), Blue Spring, Air Lift 1000, Interior Dome Override, DieselSite Coolant Filter, BPD Oil & EGR coolers, Rancho RS9000, Hellwig, Diehard Platinum x2
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:35 PM
Yahiko's Avatar
Yahiko Yahiko is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Spanaway
Posts: 9,196
Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.Yahiko has a spectacular reputation.
True.
But
There are ways to make you talk
Then you go by color & weight.

If you really want to get into it some very simple
chemistry will tell you if it is or is not.

Sean
__________________
Three Happy Cats "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time!"
Mods Blue Spring, High Idle(BCP), Coolant Filter,SCT from http://www.gearheadautomotiveperformance.com/
HFCM Drain Plug, Nav System, Leveling Kit, FIXED the Dead Backup Camera, HID Fog 3000K & Driving Lights 4300K
6.0l Forum Map : Ask me About It
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-14-2013, 12:09 AM
Enduroman's Avatar
Enduroman Enduroman is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Okanagan Valley, BC
Posts: 115
Enduroman is starting off with a positive reputation.
Interesting.
It is definitely metal coming out of mine. That's how I got it out of the 5 gallon pail – with a magnet.
I can remember on my old 7.3 that the SCA stuff was recommended, so I used it, but I hadn't read that it is recommended for this engine with the Ford Gold coolant. Is that the case? Can it hurt?
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-14-2013, 12:25 AM
99ExpyProblems 99ExpyProblems is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,591
99ExpyProblems has a very good reputation on FTE.99ExpyProblems has a very good reputation on FTE.99ExpyProblems has a very good reputation on FTE.99ExpyProblems has a very good reputation on FTE.
I backflushed my heater core. Absolutely nothing out of it. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Cavitation.... wow... who knew that we'd be arguing over ELC and HOAT? Man, this is just too much for one day.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09-14-2013, 08:51 AM
roadrunner01 roadrunner01 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 271
roadrunner01 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I was not trying to start anything between HOAT & ELC coolant types, only laying the facts out for everyone to see. The article I posted refers to "wet sleeved" engines, (which our 6.0's are not) but it does happen in all diesel engines to some degree.

As I posted earlier, the 7.3's were known to shed iron due to cavitation. After reading the article it made me wonder, is the specific tunes some of you are running causing an increase in harmonic vibrations leading to the cavitation?

For those of you that did the VC-9 flush and switched to an ELC were you aware that cavitation protection would be delayed for up to 5,000 mi.? I am not saying that one type of coolant is better than the other, but there are inherent risks stripping your cavitation protection off and switching chemical composition.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 09-14-2013, 10:02 AM
BryanStein BryanStein is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Posts: 620
BryanStein is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.BryanStein is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I went to elc cat ec-1 because that's what international puts in these engines, and they make these things. I believe ford uses gold because they didn't want to stock another coolant type.

If it's good enough for international, it is good enough for me.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-14-2013, 10:10 AM
BryanStein BryanStein is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Posts: 620
BryanStein is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.BryanStein is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Duplicate post
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 09-14-2013, 09:31 PM
run6.0run's Avatar
run6.0run run6.0run is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City MO
Posts: 2,675
run6.0run is a splendid one to beholdrun6.0run is a splendid one to beholdrun6.0run is a splendid one to beholdrun6.0run is a splendid one to beholdrun6.0run is a splendid one to beholdrun6.0run is a splendid one to beholdrun6.0run is a splendid one to behold
Wow, some info to ponder here. I had no idea there was 5000 mi until the cat coolant coated the engine. Is there any additive we can add that is compatible with ec1 and will give us the protection ASAP???
__________________
Anthony
06 6.0 SRW,Fx4,cc,Lb,789k mi,Lariat,Billet..Rare six speed with a sunroof..,Edge Platinum,Airlift Dual Guage system, B&W everything,115 Aux Tank,Open Exhaust,Studs,Powermax,CCV mod,6.4 banjos, blue spring,Coolant Recirc,EGR Del, Legal Sleeper,Sat Radio,CB,In Motion Tracvision Sat TV,2 tv's,one a 28",Ranchhand,centramatics,all moog susp n steering,HD coils n leafs,2011 bed,FW prep pkg,08 mirrors,Just lots of Goodies[/size]www.sDUTYs.com
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 09-14-2013, 11:22 PM
POORBOY1964's Avatar
POORBOY1964 POORBOY1964 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Riverton UT.
Posts: 228
POORBOY1964 has a good reputation on FTE.POORBOY1964 has a good reputation on FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enduroman View Post
I took my truck empty up to a ski resort (not that steep) and observed deltas up to 18*f on EOT of 222. I wouldn't call this trip "Severe Service" by any stretch and still saw the high delta. (thats after a thorough flush, back-flushes and new oil cooler, twice)

Still planning to remove the Rad when I have time and will check water pump when i'm in there. Wish there was an easier way to test fan operation than to hook up to camper again.
I think I'm still missing something you drove to a ski resort (Isn't that up hill)??? EOT high of 222 and an 18 degree difference putting coolant at 204 this does not sound out of line to me at all. help me understand what I miss read here?
__________________
Tom
2003 CCSB 6.0 4X4 XLT my ride 4" turbo back exhaust. Coolant filter, Edge CTS with EGT, Column mounted fuel pressure gauge, Tuned by Vivian.

2002 SCLB 7.3 4X4 lariat Wife's ride
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 09-15-2013, 10:53 PM
diesel_dan's Avatar
diesel_dan diesel_dan is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cool, CA
Posts: 2,442
diesel_dan has a great reputation on FTE.diesel_dan has a great reputation on FTE.diesel_dan has a great reputation on FTE.diesel_dan has a great reputation on FTE.diesel_dan has a great reputation on FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner01 View Post
I was not trying to start anything between HOAT & ELC coolant types, only laying the facts out for everyone to see. The article I posted refers to "wet sleeved" engines, (which our 6.0's are not) but it does happen in all diesel engines to some degree.

As I posted earlier, the 7.3's were known to shed iron due to cavitation. After reading the article it made me wonder, is the specific tunes some of you are running causing an increase in harmonic vibrations leading to the cavitation?

For those of you that did the VC-9 flush and switched to an ELC were you aware that cavitation protection would be delayed for up to 5,000 mi.? I am not saying that one type of coolant is better than the other, but there are inherent risks stripping your cavitation protection off and switching chemical composition.
You posted two different things with conflicting and dated info. Your supposition of Block material (your 1st post) is not supported by the aged information supplied on your second post which did apply to early 7.3s when they let SCAs drop...
__________________
'07 F350 Lariat SRW SC/LB, 6.0 Auto, 4x4 3.73 LSD ("Dan" is the truck, I'm Scott). BFG A/Ts 285/65/18, Rancho RS9000s, Air Lift bags, Super Hitch, Blue Spring, BD EGR Cooler, EC-1 coolant, XDP Coolant Filter, Updated OEM: Oil Cooler, StandPipes & Dummy Plugs, STC fitting, Trans pan & filter, Delo 400 semi-synth 9W 40. Torque Pro on-board! Next up: '08 rear alum diff cover & OD Alt Pulley.

'00 Expedition 5.4 4x4 Eddie Bauer, 3.55 LSD
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:01 AM
roadrunner01 roadrunner01 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 271
roadrunner01 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
No the info isn't conflicting or dated, my second post is an article referring to wet-sleaved engines. The SCA is still required in the Ford Gold, and the Cat ELC speced coolant it is supposed to be checked also, with additives available for both formulations.

The advantage of the newer speced coolants is to run LONGER before needing to check/add SCA, not to eliminate them.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 09-16-2013, 08:17 AM
BryanStein BryanStein is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Posts: 620
BryanStein is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.BryanStein is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I thought Cat EC-1 coolant was silicate free. I know there is an additive to enable it to run longer, but isn't it silicate free?
__________________
Bryan -- 2004 f250, 4x4, CC, 220 k miles. Egr delete. HPOP at 180k. New oil cooler at 200 and 220k. Coolant flush and coolant filter at 220. Fumoto valves in block. Blue spring fuel regulator upgrade. International EC-1 ELC coolant. 140 amp Alt, new starter. Updated turbo drain tube. The rest is stock.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 08:17 AM
 
 
 
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saving the oil cooler ... Importance of Coolant Flush BryanStein 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 19 09-05-2013 07:50 AM
Oil cooler toast after 20000 miles? mstiles19 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 31 04-20-2013 04:18 PM
Update on my "Spencer's Oil Cooler pre-filter" Pat. Pend. chetspencer 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2 08-16-2012 07:44 PM
New oil cooler but 191ECT and 215EOT ?? High Binder 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 16 08-02-2011 07:43 PM
HG oil cooler issue. rmj951 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 15 12-28-2010 06:30 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup