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Old 07-16-2013, 11:01 PM
itsabullitt itsabullitt is offline
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429/460 aluminum heads, or ported stock heads?

Just curious what you guys would do. I have a 460 with the D3VE-a2a heads. I'm wanting to use the truck as a tow rig, but also want it to be a fun driver with plenty of power. Are the trick flow/edelbrock performer rpm/ford racing SCJA heads worth the money? Obviously they're lighter, and stock out of the box will out perform the D3VE heads. But at $2K+ for a set of heads, I would think I could have some decent port work and oversize valves in the stock heads to put out some decent power. The motor will have a decent cam/intake combo, roller rockers, FAST fuel injection, of course headers, and I'm on the fence about doing a stroker kit. The benefit of the stock heads would be keeping the compression down if I do decide to go stroker. According to the graphs I've seen, I'd be at 9.8-1 CR vs. 11.4-1 with the 74cc aftermarket heads.

I'm wanting good strong power all over, but I do want to be able to turn the motor up to 6,000-6500 rpm.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:33 PM
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IMHO...Edelbrock parts- nothing really good or bad about them, they are middle of the road as compared to what is available.
in general...

aluminum is lighter, dissipates heat faster which typically means can take a hotter burn/more advanced ignition timing, but
cast iron will handle a lot more heat longer without warping....and typically handle higher cylinder psi

If your heads are in good shape, just needing a rebuild, yes, you can probably get almost the same performance (as long as you are not turning over 5K rpm) for a lot less $ than the al heads will cost.....but this is also area dependent too......
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:39 PM
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Thanks for the reply. The edelbrock performer rpm heads were very similarly priced to the trick flows and ford racing SCJA's. I want to build a mean motor that will definitely turn more than 5K. I know it's no nascar engine, but I want it to pull up to 6500 rpm. I'll get some quotes at my local machine and head shops to see what they want for complete rebuild with new valves and the porting. If it's going to be more than a grand, I'll just go with the brand new aluminum heads. This truck's gonna take me a few years to build, so I don't mind spending extra money on the major components if it's going to be worth it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsabullitt View Post
Thanks for the reply. The edelbrock performer rpm heads were very similarly priced to the trick flows and ford racing SCJA's. I want to build a mean motor that will definitely turn more than 5K. I know it's no nascar engine, but I want it to pull up to 6500 rpm. I'll get some quotes at my local machine and head shops to see what they want for complete rebuild with new valves and the porting. If it's going to be more than a grand, I'll just go with the brand new aluminum heads. This truck's gonna take me a few years to build, so I don't mind spending extra money on the major components if it's going to be worth it.
I think that is a good plan......others I'm sure will chime in as for today, who has the better head...FR, TF, AFR
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:22 PM
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I ported a set of dove-c heads (very similar to d3 but with studs instead of pedestal rockers) and only had larger exhaust valves put in. They needed hardened seats anyway, and half the valves were junk. 460 heads really only need exhaust valve to be bigger.
My motor with off the shelf crane cam, 9.5 compression, performer intake (not even the rpm intake) and a vacuum secondary Holley with no tuning, made 430crank hp. I was disappointed it didn't make more right off the bat, but after some jetting and messing with timing, it was just under 460hp and around 580tq.
Iron heads are great for a truck. I have a set of victor heads on a 77 shortbed, stealth intake, 850 Holley and similar cam (the wrong cam for the heads), and my other engine feels more powerful due to proper sized heads.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:03 PM
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Thanks for the info. Planning on either a performer rpm or torker II intake, with matching comp cam set. The performer rpm intake shows operating range from 1500-6500 rpm, where the torker II shows 2500-6500, which is right where the cam operates as well. I've never run a big block before, but my small block makes right at 400hp at the flywheel with just basic off the shelf parts. I was hoping with the cam, intake, head work, roller rockers, free flowing exhaust, and the FAST fuel injection, 500 flywheel hp should be fairly easy. I'd like torque closer to 600 considering it'll be a big cube big block. Not sure yet if I'm going to stay stock stroke, or get the scat 4.5" stroker crank.

Jon Kaase has a set of P-51 heads that are priced similarly to the other aluminum heads I mentioned, but I think they may be a bit much. With stock stroke and .030 over, he was making 800hp on premium pump gas. Of course he's running 11.5-1 CR, and a wild cam and huge carburetor. But it gives me hope that I can make some decent power with mine. Just all about matching the components together so everything works properly.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:20 PM
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Personally I'd go with the rpm intake if your goal is closer to 500hp and the stealth if your goal is closer to 600hp. Torker intake isn't even in the running unless you already own it and its in great shape.
500crank is doable with iron heads and stroker, but the heads would be limiting potential vs. the exact same combo with alum heads.
If you build a 5000rpm 514 stroker, then iron heads are ok. More rpm or more cubes (I like the 550cid capability) you should invest in alum heads even if they are edelbrock. I like my scj size victor heads.
What trans are you thinking of using
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:01 PM
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Looks like I'll be using a C6. It came with the motor. I was hoping to run a manual, but I'm not finding any trans without a hydraulic clutch that bolt up to a 460. The scat rotating assembly lists 545cid with .030 overbore. I'm not sure what bore the motor is already, but I'm thinking it's virgin and mostly stock. I really want this motor to be able to turn at least 6,000rpm. Would you recommend the ford racing scja's, or the trick flow heads? The FAST system will supposedly support up to 600hp, and I don't see myself needing that much power in an old farm truck/tow rig. I want a streetable motor that makes decent power that is just as at home pulling a trailer as it is ripping up asphalt.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:47 PM
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C6 is tough. A decent rebuild, R-servo and a certain band actuator gives better holding power. Research the trans and mods and you'll find some cheap and off the shelf upgrades.
You can use an e4od with a stand alone controller. HD rebuild is more money though.
Why don't you want a hydraulic clutch. It opens up so many possibilities.
You can convert (with some creativity) a zf5 to mechanical linkage.

Problem with strokers bigger than 514 is that you need to limit the rpm. They require some beefy expensive parts when the rpm gets close to and above 6000.

I've always been a fan of the ford Motorsport heads for some reason. But the blower guys prefer trick flow. More meat for altering the ports I think. Either is a great choice.

Fast efi is a decent kit. From what I've heard pretty decent tech support. The projection Ive used was super easy. Not sure the hp rating of it but you can upgrade a lot of stuff on it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:17 AM
itsabullitt itsabullitt is offline
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I was wanting to stay away from the hydraulic clutch to avoid the plumbing and placement for the slave cylinder. Trying to keep it as simple as possible.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:05 AM
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manual shift valve body c6!

c6 with a manual shift vlv body works nice. You started out with towing and now your going with serious performance for street, what do you want? Cylinder heads with positive stop rockers are OK but need adjustable vlvtrain for decent power. d3ve need machined for adjustable vlvtrain extra cost? Have made over 500 hrspwr with D3ve heads, heads flow over 300cfm at 28" with some work at intake ports. had heads machined for adjustable valvetrain to do what i needed! The exhaust is the trick to making power with the cast iron heads. For towing the dove heads work well and durable and adjustable valvetrain from factory. personally run these heads in in big blue and close to 500ish with head work, pump gas 91 octane. Also the edelbrock airgaps work great for 460's and clevelands and i converted a Cobrajet headed 400 ford with a air gap 351 cleveland. really like the airgaps help on keeping the air inlet temps down when entering the combustion chamber. The big aftermarket heads work great but where do you want to make your power? 2000 to 4500rpms or higher 3000 to 6000rpms. My dove head 472"will run up to 6000 pretty easy and i tow with it at 10 to 1 compression, i run solid cams and will upgrade to a roller on next rebuild. very pleased with
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:14 AM
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big blocks are nice but stroker are better.

problem with big power is drivetrain reliability. used to run the stokers but for daily runner went back to 472 and my drivetrain reliabiliy is way better with upgraded drivelines and heavier axles. I don't break much anymore on my snow runs and mountain runs and light towing. C6 with manual shift have any questions drop me a message and will help, few tricks to running this for street. Drivelines need to be 1350 spicer ujoints or better for towing for reliability if you truck isn't. just did a truck last week with new drivelines/yokes 4wd and over$1300.00 to upgrade. things to consider when going big! keeping old iron alive one ford at a time!
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:30 PM
itsabullitt itsabullitt is offline
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Thanks for the replies, I'll send you a pm.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:12 PM
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460 ford stuff.

short block get bored and torque plated and pistons zero decked. Run a cam around .540 to .560 lift and close to 10 to 1 compression. Depends on elevation on compression.don't go cheap on timing chain!!! I run solid cams but need a zinc addative if running this. gonna go roller on next build/upgrade. Cylinder heads D3VE will do this but the positive stop rockers will have to be machined for 7/16 studs Extra expense to be figured into build. To get 300cfm ports need to work the turndowns/throat into intake valve and smooth out intake ports gasket match to intake. Work the exhaust and mpgheads make port plate for reversion to help on flow. need a 1 7/8" header tube 3" collector, good place to start. All header are not created equal L and L does a good job! this will get you in the 500 hrspwr and hiperf/towing application. MSD igniton and phaseable rotor. 750cfm or bigger carb. Like the airgap intakes but the intake is a spreadbore intake and have to get a adapter plate to modify to a squarebore. Not hard to do but annoying. bought a 4 hole adapter plate and machined out to a big 2 hole adapter plate. Catch you later and any question drop a message. I use MPG heads cams and scott has done good work for me over the years and decent on pricing! cuts solid and hyd and rollers for me and no complaints.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:21 PM
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tranny stuff

C6 heavy case is perferred. The case with the ribs on it. The later C6 after D7 or 1977. had problems with some earlier cases with reverse clutches and thin cases and leaking through casting, it sucked and expensive to redo. I run low gear kit, torrington roller helps on friction and taking some heat out of c6 and maybe a 1 mpg gain. TCI converters sucked and my hughes converters awesome xtm43 with upgrades. Was killing my stator in TCI and my XTM has a rollered stator and solved this problem on converter survival. I was running 40" hawgs and 4.56gears. Truck will run 130mph GPS said so! Truck pulls from 900 rpm out to 6000 easy. compression is the trick to making rpms.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:21 PM
 
 
 
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