This is my daughters car and unfortunatley 150 miles away. She has been chasing this issue for months and 3 or 4 times a month, it fails to crank. She has had the starter replaced, they swapped the relay, replaced the Neutral saftey switch (they called it something else but that is the old school name I know) and now replacing the ignition switch. It is very similar to the symptoms in the post from KM7648 but I am not close enough to get to it to see if there is power to the starter or not. I would like to install an "Emergecy " starter button until we figure this out so she won't be stranded any more (assuming it is not the starter again) Is there any issues with that? Every time she gets it to the dealer or a shop, they can find nothing wrong.

I did ask her about the theft light and she states it is normal, She also told me there are no codes. I will be seeing her in a week or so so I am trying to line up a plan to try and help her out. Any suggestions would be approciated.

 

The 08 Escape includes a starter interrupt relay as part of the anti-theft system. Keep it in mind as you check things out.

 

Thanks for info, I assume if its a pats issue, my "starter button" will not work either. Other then theft light blinking is there any other way to verify that circuit? I am hoping I can reproduce the failure but the odds seem pretty low.

 

Does anyone know of access to a good circuit diagram? I have been looking but have not found

 

Keep in mind that a PATS event is denoted by a fast-flashing THEFT light. Normal PATS flashing, when the ignition is off, is slow (1-2 seconds). If PATS is triggered, then the button won;t work as PATS also disables the fuel injector operation.

Best source is a factory Ford DVD, usually off eBay or by ordering the manual directly from Helm, Inc to the tune of a couple of hundred dollars.

 

thanks for the info, guess I will do some point to point tracing as I think I may see the car next week

 

Your local library may offer access to 'shop manuals' online. EBSCO access is provided by our county library. They have some manuals, but a not-so-friendly interface system.
The PATS is switches, 'controllers' and modules, with wire connecting them, so a schematic would be very helpful.
There was another poster that has a vehicle that would not start if it sat in the sun. Start normally when cool, but not when it got hot. He found his problem, and IIRC, it was something under the dash.
When this happens, do all the dash warning lights go out when she tries to turn over the engine? In other words, does it go dead? Or is it just that the starter itself does not respond?
tom

 

Thanks TomW, I asked my daugther and she tells me all the lights are normal. She is not confident that she noticed if the theft light blinked normally or fast but she thinks normal. I hope to get my hands on the car over the 4th weekend. Still looking for manual or wiring diagram.

 

See post 5.

 

Come to think of it, my sister owns a 2008 Mariner. A fancy one. I got in to move it into the drive, and turned the key to Start. No response. At all. Did not notice any of the dash lights blinking or flickering or dimming, actually noticed NOTHING. It was as if I had turned the key and it was not connected to anything electrically. No click, no buzz, not a thing.
I re-tried the key, and it started right up as if it had been behaving properly, again with no error message, blinks or anything.
I asked her about it and she said that it happens now and again, but seems to start on the second try. I suggested she try the other key to see if the problem followed the individual key, as they have a number embedded that is read by the anti-theft, and if the number was not 'readable' the PATS would behave as noted.
I did note on my 07 that the interior lights will start to do their dim thing if I move or hold the key near the lock cylinder. I make the assumption that it 'thinks' that I have the key in the lock, and don't need the interior lights to guide me any more...
tom

 

It it's a PATS event, the THEFT light will always fast-flash. It's as simple as that. If it didn't flash rapidly, then it's not because the key didn't read properly.

 

thanks guys. I found wiring diagram book on Ebay for $25 (yes I read post 5) so since I can't seem to find starter /pats ref for free and I hate to buy for one time usage plus I doubt it would get here before car, may work it the hard way. I talked to my daughter tonight and asked her to pay attention to the theft light if it happens again.

 

Check with your library for availability of reference manuals online. Some offer access to a site named EBSCO which has some shop material online. If you have it, it is ok to use, but difficult to use to help someone else in that all the 'steps' to diagnose cannot really be pulled for transfer, must be available to do the troubleshooting tree, and I suppose would ignore copyright, etc.
I got a DVD from eBay at a low price, and have been able to use it on my computer.

HELM Inc did no one a favor by going to DVD from printed. All my other shop manual sets have plenty of PostIt yellow tags stuck in different spots. It is so much quicker for me to page flip, looking at the section number codes to get to where I want to go.
Progress. Right, just like cell phones that drop off and make un-intelligible noise when people talk, and then cut out completely when you absolutely need to use them.
Somebody sold somebody else {millions} a bill of goods that POTS is not needed. Wait until the batteries die in the cell towers and you'll wish you had twisted pair POTS.
rant off....
tom

 

On top of that, Shop Manuals tell you less and less. Like my dealer's shop foreman told me, "If it ain't in the book, they don't want us to know".

 

Slightly OT...
Bill, I took apart a speedo cable yesterday under the hood to add some lube. No problem, pull the hairspring and it came apart. I tried to find out how to put it back together in the shop manual to no avail. I had done it before, so had an idea, but wasted about half an hour fiddling and diddling.
Is there anywhere you have found that documents or gives hints on all the 'custom' fasteners and methods used? Fuel lines take a tool, clutch lines take a tool, A/C lines take a tool, fuel filter may take a tool. But no where it it documented how to manipulate these connectors.
Do you have a source?
tom