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Old 06-25-2013, 09:42 PM
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2013 Millersburg Meet results with HD video!

Hey everyone,

As many of you know a few of us met up in Millersburg, OH on Sunday like we had 6 times before:

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Here's who came out:


bthr22 (Ryan) - 2000 F250, 2WD V10, 3.73 gears
2000SilverBullet (Matt) - 2011 F350, 4WD 6.2L V8, 4.30 gears
Senix (Scott) - 2008 F250, 4WD 6.4L PSD, 3.73 gears
i eat hybrids (Matt) - 2006 F350, 4WD 6.0L PSD, 3.73 gears
Tom - 2013 F150, 4WD 3.5L EB, 3.73 gears


Present but declined to tow:
Maxium4x4 (John) - 2003 F250, 4WD 6.0L PSD
Monster-4 (Mike) - 2000 F250, 4WD V10, 3.73 gears

The day started out at Wal-Mart where we met up:





We went back to Mike's house and got to check out the trailer he lined up for today's activities. It was a deckover dump trailer loaded up with gravel:



And it wasn't light, this is the weight on the trailer axle:



Assuming 10% tongue weight the trailer came in just over 15,100 lbs. Good thing I brought my trusty F150!




First up was Matt's 6.2L truck:




We were all impressed how well Matt's truck did considering it was handicapped by larger tires. It was able to achieve 25 MPH at the first bend which is no small task pulling nearly twice the truck's weight.

Next up was Scott's 6.4L diesel truck:



(Note: we tried to get the neighbor to hitch up the Suburban in the background, but sadly he declined. )

On the hill with Matt's F350 as a chase vehicle:


2008 F250 PSD hill pull - YouTube

Scott's truck amply demonstrated why modern turbodiesels are awesome to tow with. His abundance of torque made for a much faster acceleration up the steepest part of the hill, and the truck had no issues performing the task. I think his temps were a bit hotter than I remember my 6.4L truck getting under similar circumstances, but Scott has since dragged his 15,000 lb camper back home without issues, so all is well.

At this point it was time to stress out my new F150. We gave my truck no favors for this pull, we waited for the hottest part of the day(85° IIRC), had 4 of us in the cab, and made the pull with the A/C blasting:







I was very impressed with how my little 3.5L V6 handled the pull. It got a bit warm at 239° coolant temp, but at no point did the gauge indicate an overheat or reduce power; note that it was pushing the full 16 PSI of boost all the way to the very end. We then rolled over to the scale to get weighed. Here is what the whole rig weighed with all of us in the cab:



Yup, that's right...21,480 lbs. Axle weights were as follows:

Steer: 3,240
Drive: 4,540
Trailer: 13,740

We swapped drivers around a few times before heading back to the house, and everyone seemed pleased with the way my truck handled that much weight. I did have a new product installed on the truck called StableLoad, and it made a noticeable improvement on the way the truck handled while towing such a heavy trailer. Tomorrow morning I'll be posting up a review thread and I'll post a link for those who are interested.

Next up was Matt's 2006 diesel truck. Note that he was running tuned and he couldn't keep the throttle pinned without risking dangerously high EGTs. In my humble opinion it was a bad idea to run tuned, but with a watchful eye on his EGTs he didn't blow it up!



2006 F350 PSD hill pull - YouTube

The truck performed strongly, and as you can see from the times when he was at full throttle a tuned 6.0 is a force to be reckoned with! I think it was pulling harder than a stock 6.7L truck, but of course it couldn't be sustained due to the ~1,450° EGTs that occurred within seconds of full throttle.

Last up was Ryan's 2000 F250:



It's important to note that his front springs were replaced recently, so the rear end sag wasn't as bad as it looks. Being a 2WD truck with beefier front springs it rode nose high without a trailer.



2000 F250 V10 hill pull - YouTube

Unfortunately his 3.73 gears really hindered his truck for the first portion of the hill; there just wasn't enough torque multiplication available to break 5 MPH. The truck did the job just fine, and I suspect this would have been very different if he had the optional 4.30s that some trucks were equipped with.

On another note, this was Ryan's first time towing anything of significance, and this was one hell of an initiation! He did a fantastic job despite the magnitude of what we were pulling in relation to the truck's rated capacity(10,000 lbs). Despite being 13 years old and running on 3 quarts of oil() it handled the steepest hill you can ever expect to see without issue. We weren't able to monitor temps because I forgot the gauge in my truck, but his factory gauges never left the normal range.

Afterward we got together for a photo op with the FTE banner!



Of course not everything goes according to plan. At the end of the day we had to haul the gravel back to the yard and drop off the trailer. I called dibs on the trailer as my truck is a glutton for punishment:



Coming down Mike's very steep road, we had to make a sharp, ~120° left turn at the base of the hill. As I was making the turn the heavy trailer pushed my rear end sideways...I came closer than I ever had to jackknifing into the ditch. I've towed trailers for nearly 300,000 miles and have never had such a close call.

And if that weren't enough, 1/2 mile later I got a "Trailer Wiring Fault" message on the message center and I lost all trailer brakes. Something went awry with the rental trailer and we weren't able to get the brakes working. Scott(Senix) stepped up and volunteered to tow it because he had the heaviest truck there; he got it there with no issues but I'm sure it was a stressful tow!

I'd like to thank Mike for hosting the event and everyone who came for making this such a great time. Like always I had a blast and it was well worth the trip!
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:31 PM
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Looks awesome I really wish I could go to one of them one of these days I will try and do it. I love matts 06 6.0L looks awesome. Tom I thought you had an EX did you decide to trade that for the Eco boost. Either way love the new F150.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:00 AM
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Nice job Tom. I also have to Thank Mike for putting this all together and even feeding us... You know I always decline pulling up that hill because 4 guys stuffed in a single cab is way too friendly.....

I was skeptical, curious, then down right amazed how the EcoBoost performed. After taking the F-150 with trailer in tow (Senix will back me) for a real world drive, it was utterly amazing and quite capable to handle any situation. My hats off to a V-6 that stepped up to the challenge and knocked one out of the ball park.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:26 AM
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Dumb question, but were the rest of you towing in 4WD? Just wondering what the difference was on the 2000 V10 2WD (which did fine after the initial climb).
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:29 AM
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That was my first time towing ANYTHING, so I was definitely nervous! But I had a blast, and I've been itching to hook something up since I've been back.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:49 AM
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No worries. That is quite a bit of weight. I sweat with a third of that.. Truck does fine, I get nervous. How did it handle? Any sway issues or anything around the corners etc?

It was definitely cool seeing all the different rigs towing. Have to say the ecoboost suprised the heck out of me.

Definitely cool to see you all getting together for events like that.

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Old 06-26-2013, 03:22 AM
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IIRC, isn't the GCWR on a Max Tow F150 something like 17,000lbs?

At 21,480 lbs you were almost 4,500lbs overweight, right?

That's crazy, no wonder the truck wanted to put you in a ditch.....it was probably mad at ya.

That GCWR is actually right around what I am with my F350 dumptruck. I pull a drop deck trailer with a Gehl skid steer.
Trailer weight is ~3,300lbs
Skid steer weight with bucket, forks, and a full tank is ~9,000lbs
Truck weighs ~8,500lbs.

Total GCWR is just over 21,000lbs with me in it and nothing in the dump bed, and I'm just under my max. I couldn't imagine exceeding it by that much, never mind doing a hill climb with it.

(Then again, my dump is a '94 that had all of ~215hp/~425tq when new.)
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:56 AM
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Awesome! Great job guys

That ecoboost is one hell of a motor.... my dad has a 2011 F-150 with the eco and it pulls like an animal.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:48 AM
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It was a great time as always thanks to our host. I was very impressed with the eco-boost as well. John and I had a lengthy discussion about the abilites. I drove it several miles as well up a long grade and it was able to hold the speed limit.

Some downshifting which you would expect but the transmission was well integrated and was seamless in delivering the power.

I too started in 4x4 for my run as I did not want to spin my tires. What I did not do was a boosted launch for my 6.4. So there was a brief delay while my turbo's spun up.

On a program note I came out for a four day weekend with my 5er. I crossed the scales in Hagerstown, MD at 23,050 for the trip. I seem to run hotter than some of the others but always have. I have 82K on the ODO and 2150 hrs (approx).
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:22 AM
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I love the videos... keep them coming!

Recommendation: It would be nice to see you place orange cones to create "waypoints" for the course. For example, you could place a cone at the bottom and top of each hill to define segments for the course. The speed (and temps) could then be compared for each truck to determine the actual acceleration for that segment of the course.

I am impressed with Ford's new engines. The 6.2L and 3.5L Ecoboost are solid platforms for towing. Can anyone say "6.2L Ecoboost?"
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furian View Post
I love the videos... keep them coming!
Thanks Andrew!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furian
Recommendation: It would be nice to see you place orange cones to create "waypoints" for the course. For example, you could place a cone at the bottom and top of each hill to define segments for the course. The speed (and temps) could then be compared for each truck to determine the actual acceleration for that segment of the course.
That makes sense, but I would be concerned that an irritated homeowner would call the cops. Matt's F350(i eat hybrids) was straight piped and loud enough to cause hearing damage, and there were more than a few pissed off people that lived along that road. Placing cones would make it look too much like an illicit race track(which it was) and could get us in trouble.

Quote:
I am impressed with Ford's new engines. The 6.2L and 3.5L Ecoboost are solid platforms for towing. Can anyone say "6.2L Ecoboost?"
Honestly, I'd rather see a 5.0L EB engine. The EB treatment for the 3.5L engine makes 22% more horsepower and 60% more torque than the N/A model they put in the Edge. Using those same numbers, a 5.0L EB should be capable of 445 HP and 608 ft-lbs of torque. Of course we couldn't count on identical gains, but such an engine would most likely make the 6.7L PSD seem unattractive to all but the heaviest duty commercial haulers.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:01 AM
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Thanks Andrew!



That makes sense, but I would be concerned that an irritated homeowner would call the cops. Matt's F350(i eat hybrids) was straight piped and loud enough to cause hearing damage, and there were more than a few pissed off people that lived along that road. Placing cones would make it look too much like an illicit race track(which it was) and could get us in trouble.

You could take a rattle-can of orange paint and make dots on the edge of the road... the passenger could indicate when you reach those waypoints.



Honestly, I'd rather see a 5.0L EB engine. The EB treatment for the 3.5L engine makes 22% more horsepower and 60% more torque than the N/A model they put in the Edge. Using those same numbers, a 5.0L EB should be capable of 445 HP and 608 ft-lbs of torque. Of course we couldn't count on identical gains, but such an engine would most likely make the 6.7L PSD seem unattractive to all but the heaviest duty commercial haulers.
I bet there is an internal war going on at FMC on this very issue... I agree that a Ecoboost with those HP/TQ ratings would quickly replace the 6.7L diesel engine as the preferred engine.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:11 AM
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Price determines the sale, I doubt if any long haulers would switch from diesel but the weekend warrior sure would. If Ford wanted sales it would be a good move to turbo up a gas V-8 for the trucks.

Edit: On second thought, Ford would destroy the competition with such a package.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBlac View Post
No worries. That is quite a bit of weight. I sweat with a third of that.. Truck does fine, I get nervous. How did it handle? Any sway issues or anything around the corners etc?
The handling felt rock solid. No sway, or bump steer. No "wagging the dog" from the trailer either. I was mostly worried about braking on the downhills. It took a few minutes to get used to braking technique with a brake controller vs. without. But I had two veteran pullers with me to talk me through it and answer any questions!

On the uphill I was mostly nervous that I wouldn't get traction in 2wd. But there were no problems there. It was just slow going up the first part of the hill. But I feel good about how the truck did overall, considering the age of the engine/trans., 3.73 gearing, and being only 2wd.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bthr22 View Post
The handling felt rock solid. No sway, or bump steer. No "wagging the dog" from the trailer either. I was mostly worried about braking on the downhills. It took a few minutes to get used to braking technique with a brake controller vs. without. But I had two veteran pullers with me to talk me through it and answer any questions!
Downhill was no joke Ryan. All of us are fortunate that the brakes didn't fail until afterward, as there is absolutely no possible way the truck could have stopped that trailer without trailer brakes. It would have been an accident regardless of who was behind the wheel or what kind of truck was pulling it; working trailer brakes aren't optional with that kind of weight.

After the brake failure I'm thinking we need to change the route and not descend that hill again with a rental trailer...that's 2 out of the 3 times we've had brake failure with those rental trailers. We were a stroke of luck away from being on the evening news.

Quote:
On the uphill I was mostly nervous that I wouldn't get traction in 2wd. But there were no problems there. It was just slow going up the first part of the hill. But I feel good about how the truck did overall, considering the age of the engine/trans., 3.73 gearing, and being only 2wd.
Agree with you about traction, we've had situations before where 2WD trucks have gotten stuck with even less trailer weight. Matt's diesel truck couldn't hook up in 2WD either; had you had the same oversize tires we wouldn't have gone anywhere. Your bone stock truck handled that aspect better than the two lifted trucks we've run in the past.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:55 AM
 
 
 
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